Mentoring the New Believer - Lesson 10

Dr. Bill Mounce
Mentoring the New Believer
cm100-10
Holy Spirit
Lesson Transcript

Bill Mounce [00:00:15] And we're going to go on to number nine, say it's such an uncontroversial chapter that maybe we can just skip it.

Bill Mounce [00:00:25] Chapter nine Learning more about the Holy Spirit. And again, I don't want to get into again, this is not a systematic class, so I don't want to get into too much new ontology. But let's think through the kinds of issues that our new believers might have. Basically, what I do in the talk, I use the John 16 passage, which gives more information about the Holy Spirit than any other passage. And I talk about that He actually is the God who regenerates that when we're made into a new person, that's actually the function of the Holy Spirit. And I've already introduced the Trinity by now, I forget what chapter it was in, but we've already been talking about the Trinity. You may need to kind of ask the new believer not does this making any sense to you at all? The Holy Spirit is the third member of the Trinity, fully God. He is God who does the regenerating work. And then the second thing that he does is that he's the indwelling Holy Spirit. Then we talk about inviting Jesus into our heart. What we're really doing is writing the Spirit into our heart. Jesus doesn't live in our hearts. Jesus is at the right hand of the Lord God Almighty interceding for his brothers and sisters. He's not in your heart. That's the Holy Spirit. That's in your heart. I mean, if you want to divide up the Trinity real firmly. So the Holy Spirit is the is God. You don't say the God who, but the Holy Spirit is God who regenerates and then God who dwells, who empowers, who works with us, and sanctification helps our lives. Show the fruits of the work of the Spirit. It's the Holy Spirit is God who guides us along the path. That's the main thing that I'm doing. And. There is no way in a sermon to new believers. I was going to get into all the other issues and the question is what kind of stuff is going to be out there that are new believers going to have to think through. At least the mentor is going to have to be aware of. Certainly one of the things that we need to be very careful of. Who is the third member of the Godhead of Tongues is the issue that you're going to have to walk with your mentors and help them know what to do with it. Because there are traditions that say, if you have not spoken in tongues, you're not a believer.

Victor [00:02:54] Right?

Bill Mounce [00:02:56] And it's been interesting. Now that I'm in the Foursquare church, I think I told you the story. We had basically decided to go there. We told Hayden we were going to go there, and about two or three days later I said, you know, I remember she read the Statement of Faith and it was terrible. It said that at conversion you receive a portion of the Holy Spirit and only at home. What's wrong with that? Don't you say.

Speaker 3 [00:03:23] That's all good.

Bill Mounce [00:03:24] Good. And it is only when you speak in tongues, when you see the bad baptism, the spirit, what they say baptism are filled with the spirit and still felt when they filled with the spirit that you receive all of the spirit. This is what was taught at the beginning of the most recent Charismatic Movement. I can still remember my sister telling me about my sister was on a crusade, campus crusade for Christ for a long time. I got a great sister, one of those people that learns her lessons from the Lord quickly and doesn't generally have to be taken through a lot of pain to learn lessons. She's a role model to me anyway. She she's telling me about this friend of hers that they were growing apart. And finally Terry Goddard said, What is the problem? I said, Well, we're both Christians, Terry, but I'm closer to God than you will ever be. I have an avenue to God that you don't have. And so I'm just more of a Christian than you are. And by which, of course, she meant she spoke in tongues. Yeah, I was crazy, but there was a lot of that. You got to understand, back in the seventies, in the eighties, there was a lot of that kind of stuff. It's been interesting to watch the effects of Calvary Chapel on the Charismatic Movement, which has softened a lot of that kind of stuff. Calvary Chapel movement is a you know, they claim not to be denomination, but the third largest denomination in the world. And there's a lot of variety in it. But I haven't heard anyone in Calvary Chapel for years say a thing like that. What was interesting, I went on the Foursquare website about two weeks ago and the Statement of Faith was changed. I wrote my pastor saying, You wear this, the will know that this. Is what the Foursquare statement now says. We believe that those who experience Holy Spirit baptism today will experience it in the same manner that believers experienced it in the early church. In other words, we believe that they will speak in tongues, dash languages that are not known to them. So it's interesting that even in the Foursquare movement, I mean, which is not a wildly charismatic movement, but they've stopped talking about this portion business, which is really, really, really wrong. And it's really dangerous because it introduced multi tiers of Christians based on criteria that are not in the Bible. So, Dave, whatever Foursquare means by Holy Spirit baptism, they're not equating it with salvation. So I think one of the things that we need to help the mentors kind of get ready for is that there will be people possibly coming who have been told that if sometime in the past, if they don't speak in tongues, they're not really Christians or if they want to be a real Christian, they have to speak in tongues. And that's the work of the spirit. Think that's the biggest issue that I can think of that we would need to make sure our mentors are clear on. That's not covered in the sermon. I mean, I really steered away from spiritual gifts in the lesson itself. Are there any other issues in your context related to the Holy Spirit that a new believer would need to understand? I do talk about empowerment, that the Holy Spirit does give us at least one supernatural. I have to talk about that. If not, I have to redo the sermon. I mean, there has to be an understanding that they have received a gift that they didn't have before. The gifting may parallel a natural ability, or it may be in spite of your lack of natural abilities. But everyone does have one specific, at least one specific empowerment. Any other issues that are going to come up? Any other issues that are going to come up? Victor?

Victor [00:07:17] The definition of what actually happens have some say. That's the actually regeneration. That's when Apostle 70 came forward again. I know I'm from charismatic.

Bill Mounce [00:07:31] You're Russian Pentecostal or not Russian Baptist, right?

Victor [00:07:33] Okay. So I, I believe that was an empowering of the experience. So what position you take and is there a biblical actually?

Bill Mounce [00:07:45] Well, yeah, the biblical position is my position. Whatever that is, whatever that is. Right? Right. Until you get your grade. My position is the biblical position. Let's take this biblical time as it is. It is difficult in terms of when did the disciples actually become regenerated his heart. It's a difficult decision because can you be a Christian without the spirit?

Victor [00:08:17] Well, Jesus said, my spirit, I give to you and he breathes.

Bill Mounce [00:08:20] And so that's that's the hard part, the passage in John. I mean, Paul says in Romans that whoever is led by the spirit is an exact words. But I mean, a Christian is one who's possessed by the spirit. I mean, that is a I mean, without the because the spirit is the agent of regeneration. There is no such thing as a Christian who doesn't have a Holy Spirit. Right. Okay. That's the point. We all know.

Speaker 6 [00:08:43] That he didn't speak in tongues. Or at least he said that he wouldn't hear the pulpit. But it's just been it's not a big deal.

Bill Mounce [00:08:50] That's something different. That's a gift or a private prayer language. It's not this initial sign because, again, as we know, there are there are people. Well, I guess those are the three things, aren't they? There's the initial giving of the spirit that is a sign of regeneration. And there is the gift of tongues to be able to communicate the gospel in languages you don't know. And then there's a whole private prayer language business. So you actually I mean, to talk about this, you've got to divide it into three categories, I think. I think technically the disciples were not regenerated until Pentecost, because that's when the spirit came. The troublesome passage is the passage of Victor reference at the end of John, where Jesus breathes on them and says, Receive the Spirit. And the question is what is going on in that passage? And a lot of it depends upon your basic hermeneutical approach to the john. For example, my my friend who teaches a Wheaton will say that is John's way of expressing what Pentecost was. Is it possible the disciples received the spirit at that point and were regenerated? Possibly. And then the sign that they had actually received the spirit didn't happen until Pentecost? Or is what you have in John's some kind of foreshadowing of what's going to happen to Pentecost? You can't have regeneration without work of the spirit. The spirit was obviously given before Pentecost, right? John the Baptist had the Spirit before he was born, right? Jeremiah had the spirit. But you certainly have John the Baptist had the spirit before Pentecost. And so it's certainly possible that the disciples were regenerated at the end of the Gospel of John, or it could have been some kind of foreshadowing. But certainly in large scale, you don't have Christians intellects to.

Speaker 5 [00:10:51] Find the context which is there. Jesus did not really introduce the whole concept of Holy Spirit until that last week.

Bill Mounce [00:11:00] No, no, he did.

Speaker 5 [00:11:02] And he started talking about 14.

Speaker 3 [00:11:05] 15, 16, all.

Speaker 5 [00:11:06] That just before crucifixion.

Bill Mounce [00:11:08] Yeah. Yeah. Is there any mention of the Holy Spirit in any of Jesus teachings before the upper room discourse?

Victor [00:11:17] I agree with this. You can blessing the spirits. He's not talking about coming off the coast. He's talking about work of the spirit.

Bill Mounce [00:11:25] Yeah, I know. Where would that.

Victor [00:11:26] Be? When he said that the terrorists was.

Bill Mounce [00:11:31] Blasting the spirit of.

Victor [00:11:32] The spirit?

Bill Mounce [00:11:33] That's right. So you do have a mention of the Holy Spirit closer to the beginning of his ministry with the blasphemy passage.

Speaker 5 [00:11:40] And Nicodemus.

Bill Mounce [00:11:42] Nicodemus is born of water and spirit. But I think the John three passage is a reflection of the promise in Hezekiah. But Ezekiel is about the Holy Spirit, about the water and the spirit and stuff. So I know it's a hard passage, Victor. It's a heart. Not for me, not for you.

Speaker 5 [00:12:06] Not for me. Maybe.

Bill Mounce [00:12:08] Maybe you have to be. Do I have a seed or. Obviously, you give me a seed, you know. When do you think the disciples became Christians? I tell you.

Victor [00:12:16] It's very important. It's either it could be before the end of John or at the presence of end of July and John. But I think it's clearly very clear to teaches teachers that there is a sacred experience of empowering the Holy Spirit. That's what happened with the disciples on the day of Pentecost, and that's what we see with.

Bill Mounce [00:12:37] That also also in the manner, of course. So you see, Pentecost is the second filling.

Speaker 5 [00:12:43] Yeah. Okay. All right. Well.

Bill Mounce [00:12:47] If it's clear, there wouldn't be a debate on it.

Victor [00:12:50] Well, I mean, I think it's a lot of a lot of the debate isn't on experience. If it's a lot of time when we look at when we read the Bible really through the prism of our own experience, and we if we don't experience healings, we tend to explain them all from the Bible, why they're not there, and we don't believe in anything doing it and so on. We've split it out.

Bill Mounce [00:13:14] Yeah, the Spirit is in the Bible from Genesis one one. I know I was taught that there was no trinity in the Old Testament and from working with the guys in the ESV, I mean, if there's anything I learned is that the Holy Spirit is all the way through the Old Testament, starting with the Spirit hovering over the face of the waters, you have the Holy Spirit active from day one.

Speaker 5 [00:13:37] I think so is the persuasions and the traditions that we come from. But people really basing that on the Scripture when Peter is speaking about repentant baptize, that can be fitting with the Holy Spirit. And then later on when they go to the group, Paul goes to the group and they say about baptism and baptism, the Holy Spirit and whatnot. He said, What baptism did you take? Yeah. And then he says that they were baptized and he laid a hand upon them and they were filled with the spirit.

Bill Mounce [00:14:09] And I think that's when they became Christians. I don't think you can be a Christian if all you know is the baptism of John. I don't take the Ephesians as a second work. A second experience because there's just no way to call someone a Christian if all they know is the message on.

Speaker 3 [00:14:27] It's when Paul talks about agents, agents in the field, he's speaking in a way of continuum.

Speaker 5 [00:14:31] Right. Right.

Speaker 3 [00:14:32] It came out of the same kind of church and across the church. When I was living in Georgia and then kind of came to a more reformed understanding of our own experience in. My question would be when I was struggling with that and making that tension break in policy and continue to be feel it, I'd have people in and across the camp and say, well, I feel dispirited at the same time. I feel experience what walking on crutches is. So when you talk about the fullness of God or welcoming the fullness of the Spirit, that's a continual thing. And you can fall right out of it by saying no. When someone says I'm filled with the spirit, what are they really saying? They say they had an experience that got them.

Victor [00:15:10] You know, I'm not saying that's the only way we should be constantly is filled with the spirit.

Speaker 3 [00:15:17] No, but I understand where you're coming from then. That is a that's a rough tension that I.

Bill Mounce [00:15:23] Had, you know, smell.

Speaker 3 [00:15:25] It out.

Bill Mounce [00:15:26] For me, unshackled from the other side that I was raised in a complete cessation as tradition. And it never set well with me because I could read the Bible. And as I read, you know, Jack, dear, you know, that name is a phenomenal book. Surprised by the Power of the Spirit is one of the top five books in my life. I really encourage you all to read it. Jack was an Old Testament prophet, Dallas Theological Seminary. He came to see the working of the Spirit in some pretty amazing ways. He tells the story that when it all started is that a student came in. One of the first experiences. The son came in to talk to him and he saw the word pornography over the kid's head. And so he started talking to them. And then this guy was a leader in the community and and pushed and pushed and found out that he was heavily addicted to porn. Just got a word from the Lord we just got to visually. And what happened was that that was a long time ago. Dallas has changed their position since then. This is how big the charismatic conflict was. They passed a law that no faculty member could believe in the gifts of the spirit.

Speaker 5 [00:16:40] Yeah, And surprise.

Bill Mounce [00:16:42] Surprise, by the power of the Spirit. And Jack was faced with what he knew to be true versus wanting a job. And so he he quit. The book is the story of his journey and about the first hundreds of pages deals with all the sensations, arguments against his spirit, and why he figured out that they were all wrong. What the book was for me is that it did something totally different in my life. There's something about this book that it freed me to love God in a way I'd never loved before. I don't know what it was. It wasn't the purpose of the book, but there was something that was a little wild about, you know, being charismatic or being Christian. But there's only this wild about the work of the spirit. There's something that's kind of freeing and releasing, right? It just flipped on the passion switch for me. So that was the purpose of what happened. I identified with Jack so much. Every argument he gave was an argument that I had used, and it got to the point where he would say, Now some people believe this. And I go, Oh, sure, he's going to ruin that argument. Do you know he wrote another book by called Surprise by the Voice of the Spirit, which is how to deal with prophetic voices and stuff. I'm not ready yet, but my friends tell me I have to. It's a very, very good book that talks about these issues.

Speaker 5 [00:18:01] Another good book is done by God to feel.

Bill Mounce [00:18:04] Yeah, the empowering Presence.

Speaker 3 [00:18:06] Holding Power in the.

Bill Mounce [00:18:08] Garden fears one of the top scholars in the world today. He has Alzheimer's. It's onset Alzheimer's, and he's one of the Navy translators. So I've known Gordon for years, but it's been fun to translate with him. He's an amazing person, but he is a phenomenal scholar and he is a raving Pentecostal. I mean, just out of control, Pentecostal.

Speaker 5 [00:18:30] So he deals with that very thoroughly.

Bill Mounce [00:18:33] And that but that's what's so unusual that his the book's about this thick. I mean, it's a gargantuan thing. If you compare an old analogy to the newer in ideas, you're going to find about 2 to 300 more spirits are capitalized. The word spirit is capitalized. That's Gordon. That's his effect on The A.V. Club. What he has done, he's brought academe, is called empowering Presence. Empowering Presence. It's his major work on the spirit and it's very academic, is very exegetical at times quite dry, very good.

Speaker 5 [00:19:12] He's written some commentary.

Bill Mounce [00:19:14] He's written the top commentary on Philippians. There is top commentary, and First Corinthians is Gordon's. You know, one of the other things is, speaking of India, one of the things that I learned when I got over there is just about every single convert experienced a miracle. It was like every single one had seen a hand be rebuilt or dead rise or I mean, just unbelievable. We went to an orphanage and we asked Rob and actually asked, you know, what's been the impact on the neighborhood. And he went through and in every every house touch in the orphanage that people had become Christians. And he went through the miracles for each person and how they responded. So only in America would it be, say, the spirit can't be active because it doesn't fit our theology. It just this is the only place that's going to happen. Well, Western Europe, two things.

Speaker 5 [00:20:13] Three quick comments and just some of the conversation. First would have been the secondary experience of the Bachelor or Holy Spirit, for example, the Foursquare thing that you read there. I guess the question that could come from a new believer is, is it a secondary, but is it a subsequent, a secondary subsequent experience, or are you waiting, for example, like a Pentecostal is waiting to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and a true Pentecostal? I think the difference between a Pentecostal and a charismatic, at least the way I have understood it, was a charismatic, just believes in the gifts their association. Is there A charismatic Pentecostal or a classical Pentecostal sort of believes that the initial physical evidence of the baptism, the Holy Spirit, is speaking in tongues, right? And so if you haven't spoken in tongues, you haven't been baptized in the spirit. What gets a little bit confusing and you were, say, a minute ago, is now there's reformed charismatics. So then you don't have you know, there's a little bit of a blurring of some of the different pieces there. Yeah, that would be.

Bill Mounce [00:21:19] Let me respond to that and we'll come back because I was going to say it when when Victor was talking, I just forgot to say, you know, this is your call, okay? This is you know, it's Christ Church, but you're the you're over the flock and this is your decision. If you believe in a second work of grace or if you believe in the necessity of speaking in tongues, that has to be part of your new believer's curriculum. I'm really good friend, husband and wife back in Spokane, and she was an aggressive Pentecostal and they had left their church for various reasons. And her number one concern was how can I find a church that will help my children look forward with expectancy to be filled with the spirit and speak in tongues? So for her, it was critical. She had no intention of just kind of waiting and hoping it would happen. She wanted her kids taught that and pushed towards it. So if that's part of your theology that I would say that has to be part of of this. I don't believe in a second work like that, but so that's why it's not in here speaking.

Speaker 3 [00:22:26] It gives a here.

Bill Mounce [00:22:27] I think it's a gift, but some people will say it's a gift. Plus it's a private prayer language and or it's the sign of being a Christian. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the people who said it, speaking in tongues is a sign you've actually become a Christian. Don't call that the gift of tongues. Right.

Speaker 5 [00:22:44] Right. The bitter calls.

Speaker 3 [00:22:47] With the have to light.

Speaker 5 [00:22:49] The Pentecostal would say there's three different kinds of totally understand the evidential tongues. That's in chapter two that when you're baptizing the Holy Spirit, then you speak in tongues. There's devotional tongues that you like the private prayer language, and then there's the gift of tongues that needs an interpreter. And so they will worship them, praying in tongues. And that's like worship. And some people say, Whoa, that needs an interpretation. They're like, No, it doesn't message their devotion. And that's just to edify them. And they have, you know, subscriptions the back of all those positions. Yeah.

Speaker 3 [00:23:20] But when they talk about the speaking in tongues have to need an interpreter. It had to do a lot of worship work because if you come in church, right, we're in church and we're speaking American and you get to speaking and it's interrupting the order of flow, then somebody needs to be there to let us know what you're saying right now. When you speak in your prayer language, that is something that God gives you when you speak it, when you're at home, that you know this your prayer language is focused on that. That's what you do when you and God get to talking and you've been praying about something and then you just begin to there's some people say to a or whatever it is, but I'm from the African-American experience, and I'm just saying to talk about clothes and to talk about the feeling of the Holy Spirit. See, one of the things that what I do is we talk about the gifts of the spirit. And to be filled with the Holy Spirit is a continual thing. We ask God to fill us in because there was an issue with this doctrine of eternal security. And so I became so secure that I was a Christian, that I would I would live any kind of way because I won't be able to have anyone yet. So I had to start teaching. No, you need to pray to God to continue to fill you with the Holy Spirit. Not to have that as a given, to speak in tongues. That's not for you. Believe it for me. Just. If they asked us a question of that and then we got the explanation. But what we teachers, you know, Lord, you know, you make me the vessel that I need to be. And you teach them that they need to be prayed, that they have the Holy Spirit. It comes at the moment of conversion when they are met with their regenerate. But what they have to do, you know, what we teach them to do is to pray often more continue to empower me with your Holy Spirit, that I will be able to walk and live and overcome and deal with the things that we have to deal with.

Bill Mounce [00:25:12] I think we need a class exercise. I think we all need to go to Dwayne's church.

Speaker 5 [00:25:18] What do you think? We.

Bill Mounce [00:25:20] You know, not. But you should be fine to go. You.

Speaker 3 [00:25:23] I remember when it was in the upper room, you had different. It was an out of.

Speaker 5 [00:25:30] Years feet.

Bill Mounce [00:25:30] Of people embodied in Acts one. That up.

Speaker 5 [00:25:34] It was okay. All right. And they all spoke in different tones. That's what it says.

Bill Mounce [00:25:40] That's the purpose of this class, is not to get you to believe rightly like I do. The purpose is just in your in your traditions to to get to get ready for this. We've got to come back to one because I said would come back to me.

Speaker 5 [00:25:53] So while there are two groups with the other one, along with that is wooden feet is the all the more is a symbol of God and Kojak, the Church of God in Christ, which is African-American tradition that is Pentecostal. So it wouldn't be like the African-American churches that the Baptists, they wouldn't believe. They're different. As far as I was anyone, one was a really classical Pentecostal. The others are just like Foursquare, unless that's the new one that they're seen speaking in tongues is the initial physical evidence of the baptismal spirit. I thought that's how we that was defined.

Bill Mounce [00:26:25] I don't know what they mean by baptism.

Speaker 5 [00:26:27] The Spirit Warden fee is the only person that I know of that rejects that. And he has a position paper that says, I don't believe that tongues is the initial physical evidence. Yeah. If anybody else in the Assemblies of God would say that thing, get their papers pooled. Yeah, I think nobody.

Bill Mounce [00:26:44] Knows. Mr. was gorgeous.

Speaker 5 [00:26:45] So he knows something. Another person. What's the difference when you said about Foursquare? Jack Taylor.

Bill Mounce [00:26:53] Well, yeah, he is Jack.

Speaker 5 [00:26:55] And same thing, but water fiesta. Yeah. Yeah, he is. He is foursquare. Yeah. Yes, he was a gentleman.

Bill Mounce [00:27:01] Over just a denomination, a charismatic denomination.

Speaker 5 [00:27:05] He said that it's not important for you to have as a, an initial evidence, but and it created a lot of a lot of buzz so some reason foursquare.

Bill Mounce [00:27:16] So the change of the statement of faith is is represented by Jack's change in position.

Speaker 5 [00:27:22] Okay. And then again, the Holy Ghost is a gift. Well, I believe each one of us have to ask for that. And they give given to you back. Of course, I'm a church of God in Christ, and that's how we believe. So you could talk to him because of the way he has a room with you and a little bit to give to you. And the only way you can give they give is you have to ask God for. Thank you.

Bill Mounce [00:27:49] Well, what happens every generation, right?

Speaker 5 [00:27:51] Right. If this little.

Bill Mounce [00:27:53] Christ doesn't, doesn't the Holy Spirit regenerate.

Speaker 5 [00:27:56] Again? So are you saying if you don't Spirit, if you give but then if you speak, if you don't speak up, doesn't that make then nobody else in the know. Yeah. No. Again it's a give.

Speaker 3 [00:28:10] What is it gift though.

Speaker 5 [00:28:11] The Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost of Tongue is speaking in tongues.

Speaker 3 [00:28:15] Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Speaker 5 [00:28:17] Yeah. Yep, that's right. And I guess what I'm happy to say that I'm saying Yeah, yeah, I, you go.

Speaker 3 [00:28:25] To that person using.

Speaker 5 [00:28:27] That. Yeah.

Speaker 3 [00:28:30] I think.

Speaker 5 [00:28:31] That is one of my, my, my last point that I would.

Bill Mounce [00:28:34] Really like to learn because I said I would. Yeah.

Victor [00:28:36] See what I'm.

Bill Mounce [00:28:37] Good value that was. Thanks a lot.

Speaker 5 [00:28:39] One was the guy if everybody you know goes and gets Jack dear. But I have a lot of concerns with Jack dear. Well yeah. I don't know how much you're aware of like the Toronto Vineyard. Toronto he was Lessee was he messed up in Toronto then.

Bill Mounce [00:28:59] Are you sure.

Speaker 5 [00:29:00] You. It's not. Yeah. Sorry.

Bill Mounce [00:29:02] Because one of my best friends went was an elder in his church in Montana. And so, I mean there's no way.

Speaker 5 [00:29:08] Of things you you should bingo or Google it and look into that because I know he's said some pretty okay and it was weird and that was the only concern that always had was Wayne Rooney was Wayne Rooney really supports Winger and this was initially tied up in.

Bill Mounce [00:29:25] Windsor. Yeah but when Perception Associates.

Speaker 5 [00:29:28] You know that was a little bit weird but you remember had some things that I wasn't comfortable with and I was just trying to reconcile that, depending on who the new believer is, when they come to your church, no telling what their background is not telling and. When you start getting into the Holy Spirit, you don't know if it's going to be beaten. You know, kind of, you know, and the people are very trying to work. They were like, in this meeting, it's like, Oh, well, I'm working in the spirit, and now I'm doing all these different types of things. The Holy Spirit issue can be so controversial because so many people have different experiences and beliefs.

Victor [00:30:03] I think what's crucial is, is to realize that God said you will receive power to be one witness. And I think that evidence of the feeling of the Holy Spirit is not the songs, but that you have power to witness. And this your witness is the fact that, in fact, if you bring people to church, you're excited about God. You can stop talking about him to to everybody around you. And that's what happened to me when I was tired of the spirit. And I remember that's before that I was a Christian, but I couldn't even pray for 5 minutes. I couldn't understand what people can pray for. For 5 minutes. I prayed for like all that and that and all my needs and all my family and I'm done. And I don't know what else to say.

Bill Mounce [00:30:41] Yeah.

Victor [00:30:41] I've been filled with a spirit. I could pray for hours in my own language, in times and in times, too. I remember I was witnessing and bringing people to the church and everybody was saying, Well, tell me, what's your strategy like? Well, just I don't know why I don't have a strategy. I mean, that's something that's not not not timeless. But. Yes, but that's your life actually is a witness. You get you get power. Before I was saying, well, come to our church. My pastor will explain you everything. But now I saw that God was giving me wisdom, how to answer questions, how to see what the need is and how to give. Right? I don't know. Like any encouragement, I wouldn't know what to say before. And so I think that that that's really important. But speaking in tongues by itself, I don't think that's the only witness. And now people can be filled with the spirit without speaking. That's not okay.

Bill Mounce [00:31:34] Then you could see in class.

Speaker 5 [00:31:36] All right, Thank you.

Speaker 3 [00:31:37] Well, okay, I hear you.

Speaker 5 [00:31:39] I'll be there for that. Yeah. He says that all you have to do.

Bill Mounce [00:31:45] I get here. Yes.

Speaker 6 [00:31:47] He said that all of the people that he said. All of them that was in out the room, broken time. Is that. Is that so? Because Jesus gave the commission.

Speaker 3 [00:31:58] There you give it to. Who did he talk to when he said.

Speaker 6 [00:32:03] You received power from all the retail? Oh, 120 or so? Let me just tell all of that was again that.

Speaker 5 [00:32:11] It said it was 120, that room enough to fill up on all we had been discussing about that in class. And Dr. Garland said that he had got the house had decided over the years that gold has been on it fell on 12. And that's that's what I will say that going all Yeah.

Speaker 6 [00:32:28] But what does the.

Speaker 5 [00:32:28] Word all in to be. I mean what was it.

Speaker 3 [00:32:33] All me.

Speaker 5 [00:32:34] Put it who did Jesus speak to but the.

Victor [00:32:35] Languages that were present in their because it's not 12th, I believe it's like 15 or so and so.

Speaker 5 [00:32:41] If I was number 20 in the other room.

Victor [00:32:42] So it's probably.

Speaker 5 [00:32:44] A.

Victor [00:32:45] Large amount because the like that whiskey. Right. I did that listed because.

Bill Mounce [00:32:51] It's hard on X because you got in chapter two, you got apostles in anniversary, you got God presenting himself to many people. But we know from Paul that was way more than 12 lives. And then on one occasion while he was eating with them, he gave them this command generally Jerusalem, the wait for the gift. My father Prophecies Promise, which you've heard me speak about. You get the Holy Spirit. So you switching audiences a bit. Mathias replaces Judas. I'd have to look at it. I don't really answer. I think I'd always send 120.

Speaker 3 [00:33:33] When the Holy Spirit came the day of Pentecost and 121 when the Spirit came and it fell on what.

Speaker 5 [00:33:38] All in all of them spoke in different.

Bill Mounce [00:33:41] Order. So you have you have to say, I'm trying to look for context. You've got 11, you've got Mathias, but you also have justice who wasn't chosen, was right there with him. They were all together in one place.

Speaker 3 [00:33:53] I would say one or two in the first one.

Speaker 5 [00:33:58] Is in many.

Bill Mounce [00:34:00] You know, if you only have 12 people, you've got people speaking in more than one town this year, you've got too many languages.

Speaker 5 [00:34:06] Yeah, I.

Bill Mounce [00:34:07] Came to count them up right time. I don't know. I'll look it up. That'd be it'd be interesting. I never thought of that. Okay, that was the question. How many people are we seeing the spirit.

Speaker 6 [00:34:23] When he spoke to the people?

Bill Mounce [00:34:25] So just talk to your house. Say 12.

Speaker 6 [00:34:28] People. Any of the.

Speaker 5 [00:34:29] Other people wouldn't know anything.

Bill Mounce [00:34:30] You know? Yeah, You know. So how says 12.

Speaker 5 [00:34:34] Gonna say.

Bill Mounce [00:34:35] So I say 120.

Speaker 5 [00:34:36] That's what I was, I was always.

Bill Mounce [00:34:39] Oh look at him. Okay, we're falling apart. Okay, here's the deal. Several of you have to go home early tomorrow. So we have three chapters left. Tell them 12. And I would really like to cover as much as we can tomorrow before people have to leave Walking Together. Chapter 11 is the Church. Chapter 12 is Evangelism Inviting Others. Chapter ten is the only one really hard. I don't want to start ten right now. It's just it's too hard to break in the middle. So let's let's go home and then we will pick up a ten. But we'll make sure we'll try to get as much as we can before the people believe it. Eight Carefully. Okay. All right, good.