Mentoring the New Believer - Lesson 4

Dr. Bill Mounce
Mentoring the New Believer
cm100-04
Elements of Salvation
Lesson Transcript

[00:00:01] The following lecture is provided by biblical training. The speaker is Dr. Bill Mounts. More information is available at WW w dot Biblical training dot org. We are on less than two building anticipation in the new believer that things are going to change. This is a good thing. It's a natural thing. It's a supernatural thing. So we want to get them going. So the way the sermon goes on this is that again, you understand that the sermons are obviously a week apart. So if I were just working straight through, I probably wouldn't summarize the previous message much. But I started the sermon by summarizing. You remember we talked about the trailhead, We talked about that we got off the wide road, we got onto the narrow road. We were changed at the gate and changed. People have changed lives. So I summarize the conversion stuff. What I try to do is to find a way for people to understand that the changes that are going to be happening in their lives are the most natural thing in the world. They're not a list of do's and don'ts. These are things that we want to do. And so I said, Well, let's let's have a new believer, especially since it's been about a week since we've emphasized their conversion to say so. What happened to you at conversion? What are some of those changes that you're aware of, even if you knew almost nothing at all, what did you know? And again, since you've already done less than one, then they they have an answer. They don't have an answer. They're not a Christian. They probably would say, you know, I had sinned. I lived separated from God. I understood they wouldn't use the word dead in their sin, but they probably would say there there was nothing I could do about my situation.

[00:01:58] I was pretty hopeless for whatever. Be the reason my little brother tells a great story of his conversion that when he was when David was 16, he didn't want to have much to do with his parents or his parents God. And so he walked out of the house. And when David was 22, he was sitting in an empty apartment and he said, okay, God, if there is such a thing, if there is such a person, then most everything else, none of it works. I'll try you. And that was when my brother became a Christian. And what he was saying in biblical language is I'm dead. I have nothing I've tried. There's nothing. And I think most believers knew, believe whatever language they use, they're going to understand that they were pretty hopeless. David understood he had gotten to a place God had taken him to, a place that he knew things were hopeless. And certainly a new believer would know. They've been called to repent. Repent for your sins and repent of your misunderstanding with Jesus is The point I make in the sermon is that if you take these three points and you put them together, what you see is people know something happened. I've been changed. I heard a great story this Sunday. We had some friends over after church for dinner and they were telling us about their wedding and apparently the bride's parents were absolutely horrible people. Her husband was telling the story, you know, 30 years earlier, and she wasn't angry. They were they were really lousy. And he was talking about how vicious they were and cruel they were and whatnot. And on the way to the rehearsal dinner, the husband's to be this man who at that time was in seminary with them, said, I want to ride with your in-laws soon.

[00:03:54] Because while nobody wants to ride with my in-laws, why would you want to ride with me? He said, I think they're close to accepting Christ, and the guy led them to the Lord on the way to the rehearsal dinner. And when they gave the the bride's dad asked to pray and the first thing he said was, Thank you that my wife and I are now in your family. You know, the whole wedding party going, No, no, no. Yeah. God can't see someone like you. But they knew they'd been changed. They just knew they didn't know much about it, but they knew that things were different. That's the point. We want to make sure that new believers understand you've been changed. Things can't stay the same. Things are going to change. And then what I do in this sermon is I say, basically, let's fill out your understanding of what happened in conversion. And what I'm trying to do is to get them to celebrate what God has done. And I go through a whole list of theological terms which no new believer could possibly understand, at least not all of them. The idea was to overwhelm them, just overwhelm them with what God has done. I start by talking about how, you know, when you started getting interested in Christianity and things that weren't interesting to you before were becoming interesting and things that made no sense to you before, we're were kind of starting to make sense. So do you know what that was? That was God calling you to himself. You're not doing that. You can't all of a sudden become interested and knowable of the things of the spirit. That's God starting to draw you to himself, because in fact, nobody comes to him unless he draws them.

[00:05:34] You were experiencing God as you were thinking about stuff. I said, You're rescued from the kingdom of darkness. You were justified. You've been declared not guilty. You're sins. You're free from all condemnation, which is a really big deal to a lot of people. People who were raised in fundamentalism, people who were raised in a can. Be careful when you say this, but historic Catholic kind of culture. There's a lot of condemnation. There's a lot of guilt. Right. But it's also true of certain Protestant denominations, too. Said you're redeemed. God paid a price. He bought you with the price of his son. Did you know that you were sanctified? You were made holy. In God's eyes. You are a saint, Really? Me, you know. Do you know you were adopted? I love adoption terminology. One of my children are adopted and we usually just leave it up to people to guess. And nobody. We have three kids and nobody guesses the one that's adopted. They've never guessed because he looks just like me. And unfortunately, he acts just like me in many ways. But you're adopted. You're adopted into a family. You have brothers and sisters. Now, you you were given the Holy Spirit. You know that. You know that God is not residing you. The God who raises from the dead is that we're starting to change you. Do you know all these things? And we just go through this stuff in an attempt to overwhelm them? Well, I had no idea. So many things happened. And of course you can't. There's no way that they can. And then what I do is I want to do a discussion of baptism. I had to discuss baptism somewhere. There's two ways, say, about baptism. One is that it's your first act of obedience.

[00:07:20] When you come back and talk about this, I do not believe we should use baptism for a rite of admission into the visible church. I just don't think it's biblical. I'm probably in the minority but just heads up. So you know that I think that. But the main thing that I do is that I want to describe and we were a Baptist so we don't people. But even if you're more Presbyterian, if you're going to sprinkle, you can use washing language. But I use baptism. Say, you know, when you're you're buried as the Roman six language that when you go under the water, you're you're buried, you're you're dead. You've died to that person that you were the water because of what Christ is done, has washed you clean. And just as Christ was buried and then was raised to a new kind of life. So also in baptism, we did a lot. We were we're changed fundamentally. And when we're brought up on those baptismal waters and everyone's cheering and clapping, what they're cheering and clapping is because you're now they're brother and sister, you're in a new family and you're united with Christ in some way that none of us understand. You are one with Jesus. And the baptism was a wonderful way to explain the fact of death to who I was and being raised to this new life that I knew. Which is why I'm opposed to withholding baptism for 20 years. I think baptism is your first act of obedience as a believer. But anyway, that's just me. Probably the best baptism I ever I, I tried not to baptize people again. This is all things we can talk about. I think that anybody, any believer, can baptize a new believer.

[00:08:59] What we always did in our church was we found the person that had walked with the New Believer the most, and we gave them the privilege of baptizing them. And it was really hard at first. A lot of people in church that many known or preachers got to do that and said, Well, soon as you could find the preacher has to do the baptism of the Bible, then I'll do the baptisms. But until then, the people that are most closely related to the new believer are going to do it. And we had many, many wonderful baptisms. But my favorite one was baptizing a friend of ours up at the cabin at her family cabin, and she came to me. There was a ton of people there. She had been a heroin addict. It had been quite a life that she had lived, and she pulled me aside beforehand. She said, I want you to do me a favor. You just said that when you put me down on the water, hold me for a long time. And I was pretty sure she was going. She said, Jesus has cleansed me of so many since and I need to be under the water for a while. And she knew it was all symbolic, but it was important to her. So there are about 60 people I knew about half of them, and we did the baptism and I held her down until I could see your eyes on me up and brought her up. But a half hour later, just walking around and the guy did not came up to me and said, Interesting baptism. And I easily knew what he was going to talk about. So do you do you always hold people down that long? And I said, no, that was that was at her request because of the life that she had left.

[00:10:30] It is a wonderful image to help a new believer understand dying and being washed and cleanse and being raised to new life. So I tell the story in the sermon. So before you baptized, do you give a class to an individual as to what to do about her? That's one of the points I want to make. So let's get to the end and we'll do that. I would never baptize someone without explaining to them really what it is, I think is the kind of thing where you have to do it enough. And I mean, I remember baptizing someone was it was a group baptism, and the parents went and baptized two of the kids and one of them couldn't explain what conversion was. He always asked for that, right? I mean, even even the person is scared shitless. And this is going to be nodding. I mean, there's supposed to be a confession time. He couldn't do it. And I. I should have walked him out of the water. I did it. And in retrospect, I should have, because he's not at any way living for Christ and doesn't even claim to be a Christian at this point. So before you get people in the water, they better know they've been audited. So I think in our class, is it at a minimum is is a good thing to do. But, you know, we got Philip Ethiopian unit and we had a good long time in the chariot explaining the suffering servant passage and stuff. These people were explained so well, but we're going to come back to that. Okay, I use baptism as an example, and then we always try to have baptisms in conjunction with the class. And then when I go in the sermon real quickly is saying, what is this new life going to look like? Well, one, you're going to be a follower.

[00:12:13] This is what it's all about. You're a follower of Jesus Christ. You're a disciple. You're learning to be like your master. Try to lay that out again. Don't be frightened. This isn't a bunch of do's and don'ts, but God is changing your heart. You're going to want to change. You're going to want things that are going to be different. And the main way in which the Bible describes this path and. These are the main terminal uses fruits of the spirit and explained that God, the Holy Spirit and would say you know, if that it's kind of weird that there's three in one. Hang in there. That's chapter nine and we'll get to it. But I said, God, the spirit is in your life. And he's going to start encouraging and helping you to change. And that change is called fruit. And we call it the fruits of the spirit, because while you're doing it, it's the God who is giving you the desire to change and then giving you the ability to do it. So that's what we call them, fruits of the spirit. Explain to them that life is going to change. It doesn't happen automatically. Unlike salvation, you cooperate. You don't cooperate salvation, but you do cooperate with the work of the spirit. So again, that's what this sermon is just based in attempt to say, I've been changed and God's going to be at work in me to start changing me more and more in my life. Okay, that makes sense. Does this strike any of you as saying, I would not do this topic next? I would wait. The pacing of the class is one of those things that I've thought a lot about and I may not be right. Does this sound like too much too fast, or does it feel kind of like a natural a natural time to talk about it? I think since it's the right sequence Justine was sharing out of when she became a Christian, she didn't know I didn't know any of this stuff.

[00:14:04] How do you think you would have responded early on to this message? Would it have been a welcome message? Yeah. I mean, I was like in 2003 anyway. No, there was 2006 and the passage did not explain what it was, but I did it as an act of obedience. So if somebody had explained to me what baptism was healthy and what it would have been helpful. Yeah. Okay. What about the more general topic? It just seems that just, you know, even, you know, Christian, things are going to change. Would it have been a welcome thing? Oh, my God. I wish someone had told me. Okay, experience the Bible tells us with experience first. I had no idea. I thought it was. See, that's the problem right there. Now is going to happen right away. I mean, in India and in China, you've got to tell people, run away. The persecution is coming. It's probably going to come from your parents that probably would kick you out of the house and disown you and in some cultures try and kill you. But in the US culture, it can still come pretty quickly. And I was more concerned about helping people understand there's going to be conflict because you're different. And so, okay, well, I'm not going to change a thing and that is the method I would be upfront. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Summer on the mom's not dress just to the wall. The whole crowd was listening. Let's try when you're persecuted. I mean, he's letting people know up front, beginning of his ministry, that this is not a bed of roses. But the people who are ex-cons or get involved. I don't have had a lot of issues of of. Yeah. I don't understand the issue of condemnation because I was raised in a real family of grace and I never experienced ever.

[00:15:53] I mean, I my folks never condemn. I mean, they rip the living daylights out of me, broke one by twos on my legs when I deserved it. There's no condemnation for those are in Christ Jesus. Romans eight One for some people is just an amazing business that comes from health, which it from inside. You know, I had a good friend of mine read this very, very carefully. And I mean, my copy is already because of what he did. And that was one of the major points he made. He said, I don't think you understand how for so many people they become Christians, but they are so convinced that they were so bad that while they want to be Christians, there's no way that God is able to forgive. And even after. And that's a second but a related thing. The issue that comes afterwards is when I keep saying, how can we all of our favorite sins right at some point in time. That's well, the 8000 time I've done that, God is going to start forgiving. So this whole condemnation thing, I'm glad I don't it's not something that's far from it has to deal with other things, but it is a big deal. All right. Things are about to change. There are some wonderful discussions. This is the heart of conversion. And it's one of the few places I disagree with Wayne. And so I need to lay out some stuff, just so you're aware of what you're going to see when you read his book. Okay. Okay. How much is going to cost? I don't know. What is the value of your soul? Jesus, 40.5. It's 40. It's 45 bucks. You can get electronically within software. But I was thinking I'm a big electronics guy, but from my basic books, I want paper.

[00:17:38] I don't care how you highlight and annotate in accordance or whatever. My main reference books are everything's paper for me, but that's just me. I mean, Amazon's probably under 35 books. It's worth every single penny. It really is. There are four chapters and grew them that are very closely connected to these topics and I want to go through them. The first one is the whole issue of regeneration. Okay, here's how you're saying that. I'm going to put these three chapters on the timeline so you'll understand what he's saying. Regeneration. Chapter 34 Wanes. Definition of regeneration is that regeneration is a secret act of God in which he imparts new spiritual life to us. So this is being born again kind of stuff. So regeneration is we once were dead. Now we're alive. And so we're going to put regeneration right here on the timeline that's making us new. Making us the new creation. Fulfilling the Ezekiel 36 promise. All that kind of stuff. The issue is the word secret that he uses or those solutes. You can learn this theology and you come across this region. It's Latin. It means order of salvation. What is the order in which these events happen, whether you are reformed or Wesleyan? This is the absolute, very core of the issue. When I was hired as this specific as after ten years, it's a Western school and they hired me as a token Calvinist, which I think is really cool. And I wish some of the reform schools would hire token Westerners. I think it makes for a healthier environment. And so I had a lot of firsthand experience dealing with the difference between reformed thought and worse and thought. While some followers of Worsley are over here and some followers of Calvin are there just to talk in different languages.

[00:19:55] Calvin and Wesley themselves were very, very close. For example, Calvin absolutely insisted that you had to persevere in your Christian life once he's over here, with all his emphasis on holiness, saying We have to pursue God and be saint of any come on. Jesus Christ is like to added the guest on mobile or X on the word is is is pushing. Now you have these two people talking and you think they're disagreeing with each other and they're really saying the same thing. Calvin and Wesley are so close with God. Salvation is purely an act of grace. It is received by faith, not by works. It must show itself and to change life. Calvin Wesley both say that this is where they're going to differ, though, right here. And so this is kind of that dividing point. What Wayne will tell you is that regeneration is a secret act of God. And it is secret in that is still mysterious. But for them, for for a five point Calvinist, faith comes after regeneration. In other words, what happens is that God, by his sovereign choice, makes you the new creation. And at some point in time later, a minute later, a week later, you respond to the gospel call with Faith in the Order of Salvation. A Calvinist puts regeneration before faith. God makes us new and we respond in faith. And the reason for that is before God makes us new, we are dead and our trespass is sin. The Ephesians two passage by which a reformed person understands that to mean unable to respond. So in reformed theology, before God makes you and a new person, you are unable to respond in faith. You are unable to accept the gospel call. So you have to have God make you into a new being, which will, of necessity, mean that when you are presented with the claims of the gospel, you will repent and you will respond in faith.

[00:22:25] How that will fit in. Thanks to the long discussions in Wayne, he would say. Yeah, I mean, I mean, in all the in all these passages in scripture, we're not told the whole story. I mean, you can't spell out every theological doctrine every single time there's a conversion story. So what they would say, I mean, access as many as were ordained into eternal life believed, right? That's like sex to not export. Right. As many he ordained and like Billy or is that for. That's for there is a statement of election at the end I think by the way a reform for the way Wayne would look at it is that. Peter is proclaiming the gospel God, even though Texas and say it, God is drawing those 3000 future converts to himself. He regenerates them. They are now able to respond in repentance and faith, and they do so. And as many as they were elected received him or what, whatever the statement is. So, I mean, so, for example, next to you don't have any doctrine of God drawing people to himself and no one come to me. Jesus says, unless the father draw or not come to the father, unless he draws them to himself. So you don't have every theological doctrine at work described in every situation, but that's how you would explain it. In Wesleyan theology, they don't understand the dead and their trespasses and sin as unable to respond. Thank you. You know, and this is part of the problem with systematics. They've got all these square holes and they want to make square pegs and put them in every single one. And I would just said, you know, I don't know. I don't care. It's a mysterious process. I know God called me to himself when I was a little kid.

[00:24:24] And when my mom said, Billy, do you want to be a Christian? Have you read Bible stories every single night to us? I said, Yeah, course, duh. You know, I don't know the whole process, but I do know that God had been drawing me to Himself as a witness to my parents and my Sunday school teachers at church. And I responded, God made them do being. I repented and I had faith and I was what I was not before. And because I'm more of an exigency than a theologian, I never really felt the need to kind of get everything organized. But that is the task is systematic. Everything needs to be organized. And so that's why there's a lot of this going on. By the way, what they're going to do is and we're going to see is that the order syllabus is regenerate, which then allows us to repent and express faith. So that's, you know, and when will say this stuff can all happen in a blink of an eye or it can happen over a a minute period. And so it is very good to do that. But he'll even use this to talk about it. If you've seen it in the book, what about babies who die? Yeah, he'll talk about, well, if God regenerates us, that's his secret work making us new. He can do it whenever he wants with the Holy Spirit. Was with John before he was born. Right. So there's one example of a baby being regenerated before he was born. Why not other children? So, I mean, it's a very interesting discussion I've read this afternoon again. It's an interesting discussion in the book, but I wanted you to be aware that as your people use Wayne for a resource this word secret might throw.

[00:26:11] But that's what's going on. It's always positions before position. They would say the biblical position is that people are dead in their trespasses and sin, and apart from the work of God in their life, they're going to go to hell. And God, I guess would say draws starts to drawing them to himself. And then he makes them able to respond, makes them, you know, creature, and they respond in repentance of their sins and in faith in what Jesus had done on the cross. That's what's going on in this chapter. So I just wanted you to be aware. It's it's this is about as intense as it gets in the book. I don't even use the word secret. He uses the word secret because the spirit blows Wells. And you do not know the geometry passage when God makes you to new being. It's mysterious. What happened? Well, what happened was that he reached a norm and he took out his hardest stone. And he gave him a heart of flesh, something that was malleable, something that was could be influenced by the work of the spirit, which which could receive the promised eschatological outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Okay. You understand that? Well, not really. There is mystery in this regeneration. How does he do that? We'll never know. But. But. Yeah, but the point is, he says it's a secret, partly because it's a mystery and partly because we don't know, again, in their theology, exactly when it happens. Here's what we're aware of. We're aware of the whole of God drawing us to himself. And at some point in time, we respond in repentance and faith. But what we may not understand the time is that is God who didn't work in us so that we could respond in good faith.

[00:28:03] I guess the reason I ask that question, because I don't live as small as we used to sing a song in church, there's no secret one God can do. But I would say that's a good song not to sing anymore because there are secret things to God, right? Deuteronomy, what's that passage? And there are things we can know. And then there are the secret things that God that we can't know that God has built. There's actually a verse, and I wish I can remember because it was a fascinating discussion in translation, and we didn't translate it this way in the ESV, which is why I can't find it. But there is a verse is says God intentionally built us in a certain way so that we cannot perceive certain things. In other words, it was intentional on purpose in how we created us. So it's not this kind of like, Oh, I just I don't I can't understand all the ways of God is that God said, you will not understand all my ways, but you will understand. What you need to understand. So that I told Jesus everything you know, everything. Said one thing he never told him. Like, you know what is going to happen? So would that be a secret? All of it was for Jesus. It depends on what you believe, on the doctrine, the internal subordination of the son to the father. If you believe that that statement that not even the son of God knows the time when all things will end. There are people that argue that's Jesus the Messiah. Talking is not Jesus, the Son of God speaking. Jesus was saying He did not know. But some people had trouble with the second member of the Godhead not knowing what God the Father knows.

[00:29:43] I don't. I think that is something that is secret to the mind of God, the Father and God. The Son is perfectly patient, waiting. S.C., is that regeneration comes before saving faith. And then he goes on. He talks about that genuine regeneration must bring results in life. And I guess Westley and Calvin are both in their graves going, Well, they're in heaven going, Yeah, that's right. So what the Western end was, was listening to that, I don't know, on the audio syllabus exactly, But they just don't believe that a person is incapable of responding to the gospel call to the point that they're dead at the point they have to be regenerated. My guess is this is where some people will put regeneration. But we hear the claims, the gospel. We respond in repentance and faith and God makes us new to reformed person. This is work salvation, because regeneration has to be an act of God, not something we deserve or anything like that. So that's why they want them. They tend to put it back here instead of being heard about hearing and hearing about the Word of God. And you have faith there. The big point is kind of a new thought that we got. So you got it? Yeah. They helped me through this. It was for me, too. I mean, I remember I first read this somewhat. That's the strangest thing I've ever read in my entire life. And we're still in the years here. So I got to see Wayne and said, Would you please walk me through this? Because this isn't making any sense to me. But the whole key is, is a person capable of responding to the gospel message in and of themselves? Now, we would all say at one level, absolutely not, because no one comes to the father unless the father draws it right.

[00:31:30] So we all recognize whatever we want to do with the dead in the sin. If God's not involved, if the Holy Spirit is not bringing a conviction, there's no way anyone is going to respond to the gospel, Right? It's just not going to happen. It's a real typically systematic fine tuning kind of saying what we need to know, the exact order in which it happens. I just thought that maybe Faith Family came forward. He's got a wonderful description of that. So the question wandered was, is is this something that you would actually get into? I don't think you would get into it, but what's going to happen is that if you're using this as a resource, your mentor is going to read it and go, this is bizarre. So what I would encourage you to do is to tell your managers, just skip point C at this point, it's going to confuse you and maybe we can come back and look at it. Okay. Have you ever seen John Bunyan's mouth with a huge, pretty much the audio or audio solution that he got out? Really huge. Yeah. You like it? No, I've never seen that. I didn't know you done that again. I'm not sure how to pronounce is author Tim Charles can tell us and he does and oh really. And the other he sort of like elect then yeah he goes on I mean very reformed Yeah yeah. And Tim Charles is one of the most popular bloggers out there. His blog is called Informing the Reform. Thousands of people read his blog. He's very, very influential. He's 28, 29. It looks like some. Yes. Personally, we have a problem of drugs that God, you know, no one comes to follow. Mostly draw this.

[00:33:15] This is this one you're talking about. It was in front of all this that you cannot read the common Greece, your common doctrine, the common grace that a common grace is that God extends His goodness to all creation. He makes the rain to come on on the saved in the not say the sun shining the verse in acts that there are that. He ordains government to have control over societies that if God were not in a common way, extending His grace to all people, society would not function would have Rwanda all the time. Right? Rwanda is a good example of what happens when apparently I don't know that God withdrew this common grace, but I think the slaughter of Rwanda is the best example of what you and I would do. If God did withdraws common grace, everything would descend into murderous chaos. What is the chance that you have an incredible covenant that would become so called changing the conversion are the signs of. Well, see, that's what I always held to. It was one simultaneous event. In order to say that you have to define dead in your trespasses in the Ephesians to in some other way, you have to define dead as being separate from God, not unable to respond. I mean, that's how we started this stuff, because that's generally how it's presented. What must we do to be safe? Well, you have to wait for the secret work of God and then you respond to repent. I mean, obviously you wouldn't do that. But again, this is part of the mind of a systematic theologian. They want to specify, they want to clear. And so you can't have it all be simultaneous because you don't have dead and you trespasses and sin.

[00:35:18] You don't have the Romans three. No one does good. You know, everyone is evil kind of stuff. I think one of the things that I have gotten is not an argument, but I guess that exchange was somewhat about when you look at it from the standpoint of faith being first, the question would be, well, what gave you that faith to be able to fight over my cousin? Okay. So if you take those two parallels and you say, well, if you're able to respond, how come they're not? You go into an election, But you know what I'm saying? So go back to the grace, except where Wayne will go. Is that where you chose to respond and your cousin chose not to? Yeah. He doesn't go to the election right away. Now, the ultimate cause of that is going to be election. But Wayne's really good at saying conversion is a choice. And when God is doing a work in your life, you're always going to choose to convert. And when God hasn't done to work in life, you're always going to choose not to convert. But you still make a choice. I don't know about that, but this is why I use systematics as a separate class. But. Mm hmm. But so that's your question. No, this is not going to come up at all in your library. Yeah. Is is not going to come out the new believers, but it's going to come up. As you read Wayne in chapter 35, he said, Conversion is our willing response to the gospel call in which we sincerely retentive sense and place our trust in Jesus for salvation. So we hear the gospel call and on the one hand, kind of in a negative sense, we repent.

[00:36:55] And then the positive side of that is that we have faith that Jesus did on the cross for us what we could not do for ourselves. We paid for that on page 709. I'm sorry. Thank you. I need to tell you what page I'm on, and we've already talked a lot about that. The other thing that I wanted to mention go to two things. We'll take a quick break. Chapter 36 is on justification, and this is where Wayne puts justification. Again, this is just so you can understand where he's coming from in his discussions. Okay, We hear the gospel call. We'll skip this regeneration for now. We respond in repentance and faith. And so what does God do in response to us and the responses that he justifies us? Sure, we all know justification is a metaphor from the legal system. Do you declare us legally not guilty? And so we respond. And repentance and faith. God responds in justifying and sustaining that we are no longer sinful. The point that both Wesley and Calvin would make was that our justification are being made right with God is solely on the basis of faith. It's not based on works. We didn't do it. We responded, but we didn't do anything to earn the not guilty declaration, but rather because we believe that Jesus did on the cross for us what we could not do for ourselves. God responds by declaring, You are not no longer guilty of your sins. And if I say you're not guilty means you're not guilty. But did you prepare for the return of race? I think, you know, the way it puts regeneration before makes it so you a new person, so that we're able to respond and returns repentance and faith.

[00:38:56] God in turn, responds by just among other things, by justifying us. Now, the book is going to go on and talk about imputation. Are you is that a word that you guys had before? This is something that your mentors will need to be aware of, especially if you are ministering in a Catholic place. This becomes unbelievably important. All right. When we lived in Boston, I died Sunday school at the church for three years. It was the local congregational church, and there were a lot of Catholics that were dropping their kids off to get religion. And the pastor wanted a Sunday school that would entice these Catholics in. It was very purposeful. God has only spoken to me twice. I mean, clearly it was words. And one of them was in a Sunday school class where we were on Mark and I was praying something or other at the end, and it was clear as a bell. I heard the voice as she said. He said, Stop you prayer. There are non-Christians in here pray for. And it happened to me once before. So it didn't scare me like it did the first time, which happened in the middle of a sentence when I was preaching. Now. If you want to get really freaked up in the middle of a sentence preaching, I've got to talk to you. It really upsets your theology anyway. But I recognize it turns out there were 12 of them. They were sitting in the back row and all 12 became Christians. It's a cool story. And that was where I learned about a lot of my cat between them and Wayne is where I learned kind of about Catholic stuff more. The minute you say Catholic, you've got to be careful, right? It's like saying, well, the reform people think or the West seems think or the Charismatics think, right? There's just such phenomenal variation in those camps.

[00:40:50] The difference in a Pentecostal and someone who goes to Calvary Chapel Church can be like the east from the West, but they're all broadly charismatic, right? Some of you probably worship worship in those kind of and serve in those kind of settings. I need to be really careful. My first cousin is a deacon in the Catholic Church here in Tacoma. And when I talk to George elsewhere, I'm talking to an evangelical that he wonders why he's more involved in serving the poor than I am. And I call myself a Christian. I mean, he said, look at me. And I mean, he lives he's bilingual and he works in an Hispanic community and outreaches the Catholic Church. And then yet he goes every day to mass or as he calls it, to the sacrifice. So he understands perfectly well that they are sacrificing Jesus in mass. Not the same kind of sacrifice in Calvary, but it is a death and there are things that happen out of it. So you've got to be careful. Here's one of the major ways in which Catholics and Protestants differ. And if you serve in a Catholic area, your mentor needs to be aware of this. Okay. Wayne's major sauce in all this is it quotes a guy named Art O.T.. May seven, 2018 728 Sir. The first full paragraph the traditional Roman Catholic understanding of justification is very different from Protestant. The Roman Catholic Church understands justification is something that changes us and makes us more holy and never simplistic. He's got this church somewhere in the Catholic Church, and by that I mean the official Catholic doctrine that's got the Pope's imprimatur on it, which doesn't mean that all Catholics believe it. Justification is equal to faith. Plus, their definition of justification is our response and faith with our obedience.

[00:43:06] And this is why salvation in the Catholic Church is only from within the Catholic Church. Because if you haven't done enough good deed, you've got to get works from somewhere, right? So you have the merits of the saints, you have the merits of Christ and all the Catholic theology. You had purgatory which was there so that you could be punished for some of your sins. Then the Catholic catechism that argues that that's not their reason for purgatory. The reason they say that purgatory exists is because no one can accept forgiveness, and therefore everyone needs to be punished a bit so they can receive forgiveness for 2000 years. I've not read it in time. Whether it's the millennium or not, I don't know. And so anyway, so this is an issue that if you serve in a Catholic area, you're going to have new converts for Protestants. And we would say for the Bible, justification is solely by faith that will result in works, that will result in a changed life for the Catholic Church. The sufficiency of the cross was that one of the doctors in Protestant theology, the cross is sufficient to save all who will come right No matter how many sins you've committed, no matter how many people come to Christ, it in the cross is sufficient to save all those who come to the cross. And in true repentance, in faith and in Catholic theology, the cross isn't sufficient. It's not enough. It needs something else. Wayne's got this discussion. See, Art says bottom of page 728. Nobody can, with certainty of faith, know whether or not he has fulfilled all the conditions which are necessary for the achieving of justification by arts. Catechism is one of the main Catholic catechism isms out there is that no matter how much of this you do, you can never know if it's enough.

[00:45:15] I have never read a church. 20 years ago we had a man come and speak who had been a Jehovah's Witness, and the basic message that he shared was that you have no idea the amount of condemnation and fear someone has who is trying to earn their way to heaven. He knocked on over 70,000 doors and he said. I never knew if I knocked on enough room and then became a Christian and realized that 70,000 isn't enough and never will be enough. But it's irrelevant. This is where the condemnation comes and you understand it for the theology. Salvation is within the church, right? And so you have the sacraments, which are all ways of moving you forward, which change you, which, whether you have faith or not, make you holy or make you more sanctified. Right. They're all means of grace. This is what you're going to have to be aware of. Okay. So make sure that if you serve in a Catholic area like Massachusetts or Washington State, that they understand this is going to be some of the baggage they'll get. You'll get someone to become a Christian, but they're never really quite sure they've done enough. And they need to know that Christ has done enough. The doctrine of the imputation is that Christ's righteousness is imputed to us the way Bunyan says it is, that Christ looks on me as he would on his son, and God treats me as He will treat his son. And because God looks on his son as perfect and holy and blameless Christ, righteousness which he earned by being sinless, is imputed, is given to me so that I am viewed as being righteous. But in prison theology, that's what justification is. Okay. Yeah. Now, you said that the deal with this guy felt that way, right? Right.

[00:47:19] Yeah, That was. That was the best example I know was a Jehovah's Witness or the government feel that, you know, I don't know how my cousin would answer that question would be an interesting thing to ask him. But since justification is equal to faith plus works, you're always going to have that question. Have I done enough? Well, the Catholic theology can if you haven't done enough theology again, understood. There's a lot of variations. You've got purgatory. You've got baptisms for the dead back where they're trying to build. That was the St Peter's of St Paul's. St Peter's. You could buy indulgences. Christ could take some of the merits and saints or people that have more good works of bad works, right. So they have earned merits that they don't need to get into heaven and so God can disperse some of their merits to you. And so some of the merits of Saint Francis of Assisi can be applied things. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All saints are dead, aren't they? Well, they have the Catholic theology. All saints are dead and frozen theology. We're alive or dead. So why is it so hard to get them out to get. If you were raised in a Catholic, in a strong Catholic, this whole works thing, the condemnation that comes from being wrong, it creates a culture that's very it's very difficult to hear that ye have been here, King James. Ye have been freely justified by his grace. That's why the monks beat themselves. I don't know. I don't know where that's pulling the body or I don't know where that comes from. I was surprised you didn't mention Martin Luther Stadium on something that. Well, I was saving it for you. Oh, okay. Actually, I haven't highlighted the monasteries Protestantism since the time of Martin Luther.

[00:49:10] That one in the middle of the first full paragraph 727 Protestantism since the time of Martin Luther has insisted that justification does not change us internally. This is a slightly different topic, does not change us internally, and it is not a declaration based in any way on any goodness that we have in ourselves. So the second half of the statement is would all agree with that. So when we are justified, it's not because we deserve it. Is there anything that is more aggravating to you than the thought that somehow you deserve to be saved? We all deal with this? Don't. Don't give me this. Oh, is this your fault? Yeah. We're electing. Not had nothing to do with it. Yeah. Let's see how well that one works. But also, they felt that, you know, the sacraments felt they had to purge, you know? Right. The chapter that you're referring to. And again, I'm going to keep going back to Wayne because it's really that good. The technical term for this is means of grace. 950 Yeah. Chapter 48 is means of grace within the church. And what a means of grace is, is that it is a means by which God blesses us. And so for a Protestant means of grace is prayer, worship, Bible study, fellowship in the church, things like that. In Catholic theology, it means a grace is something different. When I pray, I'm not automatically changed. I'm not automatically given faith or whatever, be the case. But there's no change to my being when I pray that's done, apart from my involvement in it. In Catholic theology or means degrees is the way in which and this is what sacraments are, is it fundamentally changes you and makes you holier? It doesn't matter whether you have faith or not is by actually going through the ritual that God changes you.

[00:51:14] In Catholic theology, the sacraments are baptism. A Page 952 Baptism, Confirmation Eucharist, penance, extreme unction, which is last rites, Holy orders, which would be ordination and matrimony. A marriage is a sacrament. Catholics view these as means of salvation that make people more fit to receive justification from God. For a Protestant, these are simply ways in which God blesses us. But in Catholic theology, the means by which grace is imparted and shaped and we are change. I think that this is why they also believe that process is one that. Yes, that's right, Mr. Glass. We have a process of this is a phrase that they get that they would spend time perfectly until they're sent out. Yeah. And we go to these services in the Catholic Church and they're praying for the sins of their. Yeah. Well, there's two different things. There's two different things there. Extreme unction is sacrament number five, popularly known as Last Rites, which is the anointing with oil that is administered to a dying person. You ever watch MASH the series? Father Mulcahy He was very, very, very important to him that when a soldier was dying, he would have nightmares. Why? Well, because that is a means by which God was extending grace to that person, making him more worthy to go to heaven. So he was just living out the Catholic theology. The praying for the dead is a verse that comes out of Maccabees, which is in the Catholic Old Testament canon, but not in the Protestant. And it was a means by which you can speed up a person's time in purgatory. I just remember I was a little kid in 1963, a little over ten years old, when John F Kennedy died. The priest gave a certain number of instructions to Mrs.

[00:53:25] Kennedy, Jackie Onassis, and she had to walk up the steps of the kids to drill a certain number of times. I'm forgetting all the specifics, how to say a certain number of Hail Marys. They were all means by which she was going to be speeding up John Kennedy's time in purgatory so he could get into heaven. I remember seeing that on the news going, You know what? What could have been a Protestant kid? I had no idea what they were talking about. That's where that set fits in. Here's the thing we need to be careful of. Make sure that people understand the justifications based on works. I mean, you're supposed to store me no justifications based on faith. All right. That Christ Cross was sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of all who would come and true repentance. And I'm being careful with the doctrine of election. And if you can hear me tiptoeing around that or not, and so Christ Cross is sufficient. We respond to the gospel call in repentance of sin and faith towards God, and in response only because of our faith, which is just a response. It's not a work he justifies. US, he declares, is legally not guilty, completely and totally and wholly not guilty. You don't have to go to do any jail time. All right. You go get a DUI. Now what you what's going to happen to you? You. You're going to go to jail, right? You're going to pay the fine, but the judge is going to make sure you've learned your lesson. So he's going to send you to jail for a day. So I think in Washington, it's a 24 hour time period and you're going to go see where you're headed if you don't learn to control your problem.

[00:55:07] Drinking, that's not Protestant. It may be good law, but it's not good theology. Justification is complete and totally not guilty. Period. End of discussion in Christ, righteousness is imputed to us. It's made. We are righteous because of the Christ. Has the. Let me just real quickly add this and then we take a break. There's other things that happen to this, that long list that I cover in this sermon. But the chapter on adoption and Wayne's book is so good. All right. I really encourage you to read this Chapter 37. And Wayne makes the point I had never heard of before, but his point is that God could have justified us and done nothing else. Well, he'd have to justify us. God could allow us all to die in our sins, and He would have remained completely justified. Right. But because of his love, he chose to justify his based not on our works, but on our faith. But he chose not to to do just that. Among other things, he chose to create a family. And to bring this into our family, too. My child is adopted. Part of our explanation of his adoption story is that we're all adopted. Every last one of us is adopted in the family. None of us are natural children, right, John? One, None of us are natural children. Every single person who has brothers and sisters where God is our father has been adopted into a family. And he goes through a wonderful picture of the privileges of adoption and all the things that happened. This is the legal issue. Those two are legal. The adoption is relational. This is the one part of the relational component of what it is to say that we are different. Okay, that's a lot.

[00:57:04] And I'm only going to disagree with Wayne in one other place. Okay? So we don't have to do this much. All right. It's ten take a ten minute break and then we'll come back and finish this off. Thank you for listening to this lecture. Brought to you by biblical training, dawg. Feel free to make copies of this lecture to give to others, but please do not charge for these copies or alter the content in any way without permission. We invite you to visit our website at W WW dot Biblical training dawg. There you will find the finest in evangelical teaching for use in the home and the church. And it is absolutely free. Our curriculum includes classes for new believers, lay education classes, and seminary level classes taught by some of the finest seminary teachers drawn from a wide range of evangelical traditions. Our mailing address is Post Office Box 28428. Spokane, Washington 99228 USA.