Principles of Effective Leadership - Lesson 9

The Situational Context

In this lesson, you learn about the importance of situational context in effective leadership. You will understand that situational context comprises four main factors: the leader, the followers, the organization, and the environment. By examining the skills, values, and beliefs of the leader, the characteristics and expectations of the followers, the structure and goals of the organization, and the external factors and trends affecting the environment, you will gain a comprehensive understanding of the situational context. This knowledge will enable you to assess the situation, adapt your leadership style, and promote ongoing development within your organization.


John  Johnson
Principles of Effective Leadership
Lesson 9
Watching Now
The Situational Context

The Situational Context

B. Contexts (cont.)

3. Situational Context

a. High task/low relationship

b. High task/high relationship

c. High relationship/low task

d. Low relationship/low task

4. Summary of Context

  • In this lesson, you'll learn about the critical role of leadership in ministry, covering key aspects like core values, vision strategy, decision making, team building, conflict resolution, and biblical theology of leadership to enhance your effectiveness as a leader.
  • This lesson offers a comprehensive exploration of the complexities and challenges in defining leadership, highlighting its context-dependent nature, the influence of culture, and the variety of styles, personalities, and traits associated with leaders; it ultimately identifies three essential components of leadership: having followers, influencing others, and setting direction.
  • In this lesson, you explore the importance of leadership, vision, and planning, and learn about key qualities of a good leader, such as global thinking, flexibility, and empathy. You will also understand the three components of leadership and the delicate balance between leadership and influence.
  • This lesson delves into the importance of leadership, illustrating how it is critical to success in the political, corporate, and religious sectors, with personal experiences and expert opinions reinforcing the need for strong leaders to guide and shape organizations.
  • In the lesson, you gain insights into the nature of leadership, its key components, and the need for leaders in various contexts. You also explore the debate on whether leaders are born with innate abilities or if leadership can be acquired and developed over time. Additionally, the concept of leadership as a summoning, where individuals are called to lead during specific situations, is introduced.
  • Focus on your strengths and improve your leadership skills through Marcus Buckingham's guide, which debunks myths about personal growth, identifies strengths, and emphasizes the value of team members volunteering their strengths while balancing service with strengths-based contributions.
  • This lesson equips you with an understanding of the context of leadership, various leadership styles, and practical applications to effectively lead in different situations.
  • When you are identifying the social context of a group, it is important to recognize the structural, human resource, political and symbolic aspects of the group.

  • In this lesson, you gain insights on situational context in leadership, focusing on the leader, followers, organization, and environment, enabling you to adapt and foster growth.
  • Gain insights into core values and axioms in leadership, the power of language and word pictures, the leader's responsibility for casting a vision, and overcoming the fear of asking for help in order to rally support for a great vision.
  • By studying humility as a core value for leaders, you gain insight into the importance of humility in avoiding temptations of pride and power and discover the characteristics that define humble leaders. Additionally, you explore other core values, such as compassion, courage, and diligence, and learn how to build and maintain these values in your life through experience, self-assessment, and reflection and how it is essential in avoiding the temptations of pride and power.
  • This lesson teaches the significance of core values and skills in effective leadership, covering aspects such as integrity, justice, authenticity, competence, discernment, and intuitive leadership, all of which contribute to becoming a well-rounded and impactful leader.
  • By exploring this lesson, you learn the importance of teamwork in leadership, the characteristics of high-performing teams, and how to build, develop, and lead successful teams in your organization.
  • Learn the principles of effective leadership, explore key leader characteristics, and discover how to build strong teams, develop leadership skills, and measure success.
  • Through this lesson, you gain insights into the critical role of leaders in setting direction, the importance of teamwork, and the need to establish a clear mission and purpose for organizations. Understanding these concepts enables you to be a more effective leader who can inspire and guide teams towards shared goals.
  • A Mission is a philosophic statement that answers the question, “Why are we here?” Vision is a strategic statement that answers the question, “Where are we going?”

  • This lesson teaches the importance of long term thinking in visionary leadership, emphasizing the value of learning from history, engaging present realities, and exploring future possibilities through scenario thinking and adapting to technology and trends.
  • This lesson explores strategic thinking, SWOT analysis, and trend analysis to help develop a clear vision and mission and adapt to an ever-changing environment in education and ministry.
  • Identifying objectives is the process of moving from vision to reality. Objectives are the tactics employed to carry out the strategies, the action plan of what needs to happen now. Decisiveness is an important quality of a good leader.

  • By studying this lesson on leadership and change, you will learn to effectively manage change in leadership, overcome resistance, implement and communicate change vision, and sustain long-lasting organizational transformation.
  • This lesson equips you with the knowledge and skills to navigate leadership challenges and transitions, fostering personal growth and organizational success.

This is a core leadership course designed for those who intend to be future leaders in ministry. This course will move from definitions to the core values of a leader; how to take a ministry through a vision process; engage in strategic planning, decision-making, and implementation; build great teams; work through conflict and change; delegate tasks; and effectively mentor the next generation of leaders. Models from the corporate, political, and military worlds will be compared and contrasted with biblical definitions and illustrations of leadership.

You may download the complete set of Dr. Johnson’s notes as a pdf. Since this class was presented during a condensed time frame, Dr. Johnson does not comment on all the points in his notes. We have provided the full text of the notes for your benefit. Click on the Class Outline link under Downloads.

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Dr. John Johnson
Principles of Effective Leadership
The Situational Context
Lesson Transcript

Dr. John Johnson [00:00:01] Maybe just summarize. Here's a simple illustration. If you went to a Portland Trail Blazer game and let's say each of you represent a different person, let's say that Dominique is Paul Allen the owner. Okay? And Adam, let's say is Nate McMillan. Marsha is a loyal fan and Sandy is a concessionaire. Let's say ten is a player on the team. Terry is.

Speaker 2 [00:00:36] Opposing team.

Dr. John Johnson [00:00:37] Policy now. Cheerleader.

Speaker 2 [00:00:40] Ready to dance? Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [00:00:43] Think about this for a moment. Coming in, you will all see different things, won't you? Let's help Dominic. What would Dominic say? He's Paul Allen, the owner. What does he see when he walks into the Rose Garden?

Speaker 2 [00:00:57] The volume of people.

Dr. John Johnson [00:00:58] He's looking at volume, right? He's looking at the income here. What else is he looking at? Performance. Yeah. So he's going to be looking at the performance of his product. Adam. He comes in and he's Nate McMillan. He's the coach. What is he seen? Instinctively he's looking at the players. Right. Which players player's.

Speaker 2 [00:01:23] Opposing team problem?

Dr. John Johnson [00:01:25] Probably he's focusing on his own. So how's that knee of Brandon Roy or. But he's also over there looking, watching these guys, noticing who might just be starting, who looks unusually good, who's looking flat. Could be a lot of things like that. How is he looking at? Probably something a coach would be very interested in with each game.

Speaker 3 [00:01:50] You know.

Dr. John Johnson [00:01:51] The arms, the refs. Exactly. Oh, that guy. Every time we play always is a problem to me. He wants to know who the refs are, right? So now Marsha comes in. Marsha is an avid, rabid fan. What does she see as she walks in?

Speaker 2 [00:02:10] Other fans?

Dr. John Johnson [00:02:11] Okay. She's looking at the crowd.

Speaker 3 [00:02:15] Her favorite player.

Dr. John Johnson [00:02:16] Yeah. Great. Yeah. So is he there? Is he dressed tonight? What else is she looking at?

Speaker 3 [00:02:24] My day.

Dr. John Johnson [00:02:27] Exactly?

Speaker 3 [00:02:29] The merchandise. And what is the one?

Dr. John Johnson [00:02:32] Yeah, where the concessions are. And then where are the restrooms, Right?

Speaker 2 [00:02:39] Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [00:02:40] And the seating, of course. What are my seats look like now? Sandy comes here and she's a concessionaire, but the first thing instinctively, she's seen.

Speaker 2 [00:02:50] How many people are there.

Dr. John Johnson [00:02:51] Yeah. Is it going to be full tonight? What else might she be looking at.

Speaker 3 [00:02:56] In this.

Dr. John Johnson [00:02:57] Inventory? Of course.

Speaker 3 [00:03:00] And it's changing.

Dr. John Johnson [00:03:01] Yeah. Okay. Does she and her product, everything are set there. Cleanliness of the area. Yeah. Yeah. You know, did they leave it nice. You know, Is it look presentable. She might look at the team and say how does this match up. That might say something about, you know, every time there's a blowout on this, that means that we got to sell early because people might not hang around or she might say this could be a real dogfight. This could go over time. That'd be beautiful. So ten he is what we say, opposing player.

Speaker 3 [00:03:37] Player.

Dr. John Johnson [00:03:37] I'm a player on that. Excuse me. Yeah, player on the team. So he comes in. So let's say Brandon Roy, what does he see?

Speaker 2 [00:03:46] The other teams.

Dr. John Johnson [00:03:47] He's looking at the guy that he's going to probably be elbowing or getting elbowed the most. Right? Which guy is this? Oh, that guy, man, he always makes it hard on me. Or this is a team. I last time I. I scored, I'm going to look good tonight. He'll see what else. He's looking and what does he instinctively see as a player?

Speaker 2 [00:04:14] Usually listen and watch the court.

Dr. John Johnson [00:04:20] Yeah, of course. As a player, he's checking out words, coaches, maybe his mood tonight, what he's thinking. Terry, what do we say? Terry is he's a male cheerleader. What else is he looking at?

Speaker 3 [00:04:38] The crowd.

Dr. John Johnson [00:04:39] He's looking at that. Why is it are they into it tonight? Are they ready? Energy level? He's looking at the space in which we're going to do some of these things. We're going to have enough room for this. Yeah, So lots of different things. This is what really a church or any organization's like. Everybody walks in with their own set of glasses on. They see through their lens. You're going to have some organizational types. That's what they see a lot of that's what the focus. You're going to have some human resource types that all they're thinking about is how we feel. You're going to see some who largely wear the political frame. They're seeing power control, who has influence, and then the symbolic people are going to be seen again, the ritual, the story, the traditions. What is the leader have to see Everything, all of the above. The point of this here is if you sign on to be a leader, you don't get to see through one set of frames. You have to see through all four. Sometimes you have to almost see through all four at the same time at other times to sort of like, remember what did they call them? Kaleidoscopes. You have to keep turning. Remember those things? You look in the sun, you keep turning. You almost have to keep turning this to see. Okay, so what is a human frame looking like right now? Like right now in sort of this mini crisis I'm going through, I have to keep changing the frame. So structurally, what's it really my decision? If I had to do over again, I should have done that differently. Was that the right decision? Human frame Are people with me? What's the morale where people at political frame? Oh, we're the power groups. We're the tribes. What are they plotting next? Well, I survived the week in symbolic frame. The decision we made. Does this fit with our story? Who we are.

Speaker 4 [00:06:42] Is going to like you playing an orchestra to play guitar to jazz.

Dr. John Johnson [00:06:45] Uh huh.

Speaker 4 [00:06:46] Yeah. And my my chart was just the guitar. When you look at the leaders score, it's like every composition. Yeah. So it's kind of like getting us to.

Dr. John Johnson [00:06:55] Yeah, See how easy leadership is.

Speaker 2 [00:06:59] Piece of cake.

Dr. John Johnson [00:07:01] No, it's very complex, isn't it, to do it right? It's a complex thing. This is complex enough, isn't it? But oh, man, I've got to also see through this. But we're not done yet. There's another whole context we have to see. And that's the third one. Here is what we call the situational context. And just to make it easy on all of you, this also has four frames, if you will. Okay, Cultural. I mentioned the name. Who would you associate that with? Kind of a long name playing and felt or right social frame linked with who Bowman and deal right now situational. This is again another sort of theory of context and this was developed by a guy named Paul Hersey. HRC Why Paul Hersey And then it was, I think, a little more popularized with a guy named Ken Blanchard. Ken Blanchard, Paul Hersey kind of work together. Then I think they sort of went their separate ways. Paul Hersey had this concept of what he calls situational context and situational frames. Basic thesis is this leadership style has to match follower readiness. Pretty simple. He all got that. What did I say? Leadership style has to match follower readiness. Readiness. He calls hours and styles hours, obviously. So you've got to match r one to S what? S1 Yeah, and etc. all the way through. And then he defines what these are. I'm going to go through and talk about each one of these. We'll stop after each one. Talk about a little bit the essential conviction here as I list is that leadership is about influence. And we influence when we adapt our behavior to the performance needs of the individual. A leader has to see in this here the readiness level of the people he leads. The first category is the very base category. What it costs are 1r1 is going to require high task, low relationship, high test, low relationship. So think about that for a moment. High task, low relationship. What does that mean? It means the leader comes in and he sees that he's going to have to give a lot of leadership to the follower. Understanding the task and the relationship level is not going to be so important at this point. Common illustration is the drill sergeant on the first day of boot camp, a person is that R one, and by R one he means this. The readiness level is at the very base level, which means here, as you see, unable and unwilling think of a recruit or maybe not even a recruit. Think of a back to Vietnam War. Well, you can think back to Vietnam War, but I remember a Vietnam War when there was the draft. You're not going to college. You don't have a student deferment. Suddenly get this letter in the mail that starts off with greetings. And what it means is greetings. You have been invited by Uncle Sam to go into the Army. So you will report at Ford August 15th. You don't have any choice. You're drafted, you're going to be in the Army. You're going to go through ten weeks of boot camp and probably you're going to be put on a plane to Danang, South Vietnam. You're going to land there. And maybe that night you're going to go out on patrol and you may not get out alive. Many in my generation got their draft notices. I was in college, so I did not get my draft notice, but many of my peers did. Most were unable and unwilling meaning unable, had no clue how to fire a rifle. Unwilling. Didn't want to be there. I want to be on the beaches in the Hoya surfing, not somewhere in Vietnam. No offense to Vietnam, but they want to be there in a war. When a person is unable and unwilling, it requires a style of leadership. Style of leadership we call SE one and SE one is high task, low relationship. The epitome of that is the drill sergeant high task. Okay, so it's going to take a lot of showing you what to do, helping you with the task low relationship. You don't come to boot camp and the drill sergeant says, Hi, tell me about your family. You okay? I'm sorry. You don't want to be here. You want to talk about it? I know this is hard for you. Well, know what is the drill sergeant? Do you know? He gets on the bus and he says, You have 30 seconds to get off this bus and you've just wasted 15 of mine, right? Something like that. Everybody runs off the bus and they're kind of, you know, it's going to be that way for the next four or five weeks. It's going to be a very one style of leadership. I'm not interested if whether you like me or not, because this isn't about a relationship. You hate my guts. I could care less. But if you listen to me, you will learn how to fire a rifle. And let me just say this. If you don't learn how to fire a rifle, that will not be helpful for you when you land in Vietnam. So in the draft, while there were a lot of unwillingness to be there, there was a lot of high attentiveness because they knew that what it was learn or die. So that's kind of thing. So Hersey would say that the first basic level of leadership is high test, low relationship follower readiness is unable or unwilling. What are the readiness indicators You look for your lead leading somebody. So readiness levels, do they know what to do? Are they unclear about the directives? Is there low confidence? Is there a low commitment? Are they intimidated? And the leadership requirements are. I've got to do a lot of telling. I've got to do a lot of directing. I've got to do a lot of structuring and forming. It doesn't mean demanding, demeaning, attacking, dominating necessarily, which people can do with S1 style leadership, but it just means I'm going to have to spend a lot of time. It's like a parent of a three year old. It's going to require an SE one style of leadership. This is how we do it. This is what we need to do. This is how you treat others. Then hopefully, hopefully there's a ship somewhere some day, two hour to an hour. Two is you're still unable, but you're becoming willing. So at this point, let's say maybe back to boot camp, you've got your way through boot camp and now you're going to a particular school that's going to train you and you're beginning to say, hey, I'm learning a lot. I like this. I don't know what to do yet, but I'm willing. And what Hercy would say is that when that begins to shift, then you need to shift your style of leadership. Like I say, a parent, a parent's parenting and a child moves from the unwillingness stage to say, I really want to do this. Let's say you're going to teach your son how to play tennis, and at first he hates it. He doesn't want to and he doesn't know how to. And you've got to be directive. Look, I don't care. This is where we're going to start. This is how you do it. And one day, maybe he says, I really think I'm going to like this. I still don't know how to do it. But now your leadership style shifts from low relationship to high relationship. He knows we're going to have a great time. It's still high task. You still have to spend a lot of time in helping them with the task. Some of the readiness indicators, they're interested, excited, but still moderate ability, not a clarity about the objectives. It's a new task. No experience and the leadership requirements start to shift to more coaching, mentoring rather than kind of a low relationship phase where it's just not. Look, I'm sorry, but this is how you do it with me so far. Are you getting this our one? What is our one again? Unable. And what unwilling are two? Unable but willing. S one is what kind of relationship S One is is low relationship high task. Think of drill instructor. Two shifts to now as a person moves to are two shifts. Two now what? What kind of relationship?

Speaker 3 [00:17:11] I'm a mentor. Okay.

Dr. John Johnson [00:17:12] Yeah. So a relationship, right? High relationship. High relationship.

Speaker 4 [00:17:18] And high.

Dr. John Johnson [00:17:19] And high task. Right. Again, the tennis analogy. My son. At first, when I took him on the court because I grew up on a tennis court and still am an avid player, I said needless, go out and play tennis. And he wasn't really excited about it. I said, Come on, we'll go. Go. And so it was a lot of high task, not so much a little relationship. I wasn't so much interested in whether he loved it or not. I said to myself, I'm going to at least help you learn a task one day. You may choose to say, I really like this. Well, he moved into a phase where he began to say, I really like this. So I moved to more of a coaching. Still had to spend the same amount of time on the test side, but the relationship part changed. What you hope is that eventually they move into then the next one here and the next one after three is a ball. Now they've learned the task, but they're and don't let unwillingness throw you. It could be more of I'm just not confident enough yet. So there's a de Nate now he knows how to play. He really gets it sometimes. Maybe he even beats me. So my high task style of leading has shifted, hasn't it? I don't spend a lot of time telling him how to serve, how to put a shoulder into a backhand or whatever. Those days are gone. I'm not so much focused on that, but it's still high related, still needs high relationship because now we go to the first tournament. He goes, Oh, dad, I'm not. Come on, you can do it. Really? I've seen you. Don't let this guy unnerve you. Lot of high relationship, but kind of low task. Let's look at readiness indicators there. Maybe like first time solo. Still lack in confidence, needs feedback, has ability, but afraid to use it. The leadership here has shifted to encouraging. I'm empowering again not to be confused with patronizing, pacifying, condescending. Maybe, just maybe, we move with the person that's following us to one day to a low relationship, low task, and the follower readiness is that able and willing a staff person, as I put it, doing the job with proficiency. There's the day that Nate is on a tennis court. He's willing and he's totally capable and confident I can do it. Whether I show up or not isn't important anymore. He doesn't need me to be there as sort of his crutch. He might even say, Dad, I know you've got a busy schedule. We've got a team we're playing today. If you can make it great. If not, it's okay. I don't have to coach him. He knows how to do it. So the Readiness indicators is performing consistently, loves the tasks, appreciates Ashley, appreciates our autonomy, And some of the leadership requirements are delegating, monitoring, assigning, letting the staff do their work, meeting their goals. So his point here is that the leadership style is determined by the readiness of the follower. And that's what you have to figure out. Now, obviously, in a church or an institution, many institutions, what's the big challenge? You come in and you find you've got are ones or twos or threes and all fours, which means what? You've got to be in this one as two as three, as four leader but you've got to figure out where to exercise that. Here's a basic problem parents can make is that as the child moves from readiness level 1 to 2 to 3 to 4, the leadership style doesn't adapt. Let's imagine you're still at Style one with a child that are four. See how parents can make that mistake. So Hershey's whole point is these things have to match up. I'm gonna stop here for a moment. Questions? I've given you a whole week long conference because that's what you take on this. And less than 30 minutes.

Speaker 3 [00:21:53] I'm watching the arrows. I mean, on the diagram you are pointing. Yeah, right, Right.

Dr. John Johnson [00:22:00] Okay, so first of all, the natural flow is obviously moving this way, right? But sometimes the arrows go backwards. What what is he saying there? What is this suggesting? Any. Any any guesses?

Speaker 4 [00:22:21] Well, there might be occasions where a person is operating in hour or two before they start. Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [00:22:26] Sometimes. Sometimes followers regress. Sometimes. They were over here at ah, three, but they move back. Or maybe there are two and they go back to our one. My son, for example. I'm sorry, I just finished this. My son moved to ah, to on tennis. But then one day he wasn't able or willing. He changed his mind. Sometimes there's regression. That's the point of the years. And the point is, whatever those shifts are, you have to shift. Your daughter does the dishes and she used to not be willing, but now she is. She does it. Great. We've moved past that. But one day she says, I don't want to do them anymore. Well, the leadership has to adjust to that. Other questions.

Speaker 3 [00:23:30] Just thinking maybe a new assignment because we had a different place.

Dr. John Johnson [00:23:37] Say that again.

Speaker 3 [00:23:37] A new assignment. Yeah. You have a delegated leader. I'm talking about delegated. Are we just talking about.

Dr. John Johnson [00:23:47] Well, I mean, you can apply this to anything, but you're thinking about saving the church for a moment here.

Speaker 3 [00:23:54] I was just thinking, if you had someone who was delegated leader, like maybe a little small bird and maybe there was a new assignment for them, and so maybe they were proficient, competent and confident in one area that they had just finished and that was another. A new. You know, ministry.

Dr. John Johnson [00:24:17] Right? Yeah. So now you've moved from low task as leadership to high task leader again to help them work through this. I mean, the goal is you always want to be moving followers to our four, right? I want to move them to a low task, low relationship. Now, don't misunderstand low relationship. It doesn't mean I want to move people so I don't have to deal with them anymore or have a relationship. It just means they are highly dependent upon my relationship anymore to do their task. Part of what's really fascinating about this, if you ever take a course like in this is what they do along the way is they have you take a number of tests to pinpoint what style of leader is your natural default. Some people are naturally s ones. That's very easy for them. High control, high authority type people. It's also important in this to step back and say, okay, my, my styles have to shift here. But what is my default button here for me? Because if this is who I naturally am, I'm going to have to work harder to get pass this one to the next one. When the readiness level shifts. I'll give you an illustration. At the end of the course, one of the things they do is sort of like what we do here in this class. We watch a movie that kind of underscores what we've learned. In this case, they went back to a very old movie. 12:00 high. It's kind of a famous, famous movie with Gregory Peck. It's a story of this squadron flying B-17s in Germany in World War Two. And the story starts off that these guys are flying over Germany and they're coming back and they're having a high attrition rate. They're losing a lot of bombers. The morale is really down. In fact, it's getting to the point where everybody is saying, oh, man, I got this cold, I can't fly today and it's a suicide mission. The problem is there are one, but the leader of the squadron is sort of somewhere over here at hours three or four. Meaning? What do you think? What do you think he's trying to be? He's trying to be their pal, their buddy, but they're dying. The Strategic Command says we've got a problem here. Got a high attrition rate. Morale is really low. So they come in and they take the head of the squadron. Nice guy. Likes to drink beer with the guys and he says, We're going to replace you. And they replace him with Gregory Peck. So Gregory Peck is what do you think kind of leader he is. He's our SWAT. That's one. He's a nice one. So he comes in first day and he says, okay, we're going to do practice bombing runs at 4 a.m. tomorrow morning. Guys are kind of grousing and he could care less. And he works like dogs and everybody hates him. But he's just working them and working them and working them. He will tolerate no insubordination. He is S-1 all the way, and these guys just loathe him. But over time, they're starting to become proficient at what they're doing. They're losing less bombers. The morale starting to believe, hey, you know, we can do this. So they're counting how many planes come back and and things are starting to change and Peck starts to shift. He's becoming more relational, more approachable. And so and he's moving with them. They start to move two or three. They they're now willing. They're still not confident. And in fact, when they go out on the bombing missions, Peck is is the squadron commander flying with them? Not just flying with them. He's the lead pilot. He's taken them in all these missions, starting to relate to them. They're still a little uncomfortable. Near the end of the movie. PECK Whether it's accurate or not, he doesn't go with them. He's sick. So they have to go out on their own. And now they're willing and they're able. So it's not like, Oh, man, no, we can't. They know they can do it. They're able to do it. They're competent. So they fly this mission and they come back and Peck gets out of bed and he comes out on the tarmac and he's watching. He's counting the planes. And they every single plane returns from this very dangerous bombing mission. And then Peck does something that really threw me. I'm ready for him to go out on the tarmac as they land. Give them all high fives, buy them all a beer and just, you know. Wow. Way to go, guys. But what is Peck do? And he guesses. Think about S4. What's S4? Low task. Low relationship. So what does he do? What would the relationship to do when he goes back to bed? He goes back to bed and I'm thinking, I'm watching a movie. No, What are you doing? Come on, man. These guys need you to, you know, be their cheerleader now. No. What is that? Go on. The bad stuff. But Peck gets it that he, in a sense, makes a statement as an ass for leader. What's the statement he makes?

Speaker 3 [00:30:28] Think they can do it.

Dr. John Johnson [00:30:30] You don't. You don't need me, guys. You're. You're. You're on your own. You don't need a cheerleader. You don't need an affirmation like you used to. That's what. That's S3. Okay. There was a place where they needed that. It's okay. Come on. You can do it. Yeah, you did it. Way to go. You know, and so what I'm getting at is the reason I struggled with what he did is because when I took the test on myself, my default button is I'm an S3 by nature. That's who I am. Which means what? Okay, I might say. Well, I think that's really good. But what I learned in this is that I have to shift at times to S4 because actually if I go out on the tarmac, which I'm inclined to do, I might be sending a wrong signal that I'm not quite willing or able myself to let go. I still want to hold on a little bit. S4 is kind of hard for me because my pant is S3. So when you figure out who you are, then it helps you to know what you need to maybe give more energy to shifting to. If you tend to be in S1, for example, wow. You're going to have to learn to get out of that control mode you're in. To a certain extent, even S3 is a little bit of control. I don't know if I mentioned it, but if you go back to little relationship task notice, delegating means monitoring, assigning, letting staff do their work, not to be confused with abdicating, dumping, abandoning. Don't take it too far and say, Good, I don't have to be around here at all. No, you still need to be there, but you need to be there in a way that says, I know you can do it. And I'm I'm not surprised that you did it. More thoughts, Questions. Yeah. Marcia.

Speaker 3 [00:32:37] I love what you're saying because I just really relate to it. And it reminds me of that book, I think reading. And I brought it up last class and then I don't want to say, well, the mountain climbing book, because they analyzed the two teams that went up the mountain, and ten years later they analyze both teams and the style of leader and the team that was the one where the leader trained them how to think for themselves. And when the other ones got up and the others were relying on the leader to tell them they had a he had an S1, an S2 leadership style, the other one and an S3 has four. Then when they got up there on the top of that mountain in the middle of the night, in the darkness when the weather changed, they were able to think for themselves. They knew how to come down that mountain.

Dr. John Johnson [00:33:28] Yeah, makes great sense. The problem is, for some of us as leaders, there's sort of an irony in us. We want people to get on with it and get on their own, but we also like to feel needed. So sometimes we aren't willing to totally prepare people because we want to know we're needed in the moment. And then that can handicap people. Like in that case, a good leader would have got them all the way to that place. Sometimes we don't give people all that way to that place because we want to feel like they need us. Am I making sense? And I think that's a little bit of what you're contrasting here is the leader who maybe doesn't quite know how to let go. And so they're handicapped. They don't know how to think for themselves. Maybe you've seen this. Gordon MacDonald wrote a book years ago entitled Order in Your Private World. And in this book he talks about, in a certain sense, the readiness level of congregations. He uses different categories. He puts it like this In every church there are we are peace. We are peace. And in a sense, VIP is what they have in common is these are your very resourceful people. They're the people that actually don't need you. You actually need them. Let's say an older sage in the church that has so many more years experience someone every now and then you can say, Can we go out to lunch? And I don't know what to do with this decision. And then there are your VIPs. We know who they are, right? You're very important people. Now, these would be what we've just described. They would be as white or they're as force. Right? Excuse me. I didn't ask that question. Right. They are. They are your are force. Right. Okay. The readiness. Level is low task, low relationship. You kind of let them go. He calls a next category of people. It's what he calls your VCE piece. And your 50 piece are your very trainable people. They are your future VIPs. They VIP's are the people who are like your leaders. You know, the people you're working with. They get it. They're doing the ministry there. You've unleashed them. You're sharing this. They're part of the team. You're VIPs are the people who are not quite there yet, but they're going to be there. So your pawn something of yourself in them? They are probably are. What would you think are maybe somewhere between I hour to an hour threes. It requires a different style of leadership here. This is going to demand more relationship time and more task time. And you're doing that because you want to get them here. Then McDonald said there is another category. He calls them the end piece. And you guess who they are? Perhaps are the people in your church that are what he calls fairy and nothing free. Nothing. People sorta. It's kind of close, Sandy. They are your. They are your very. Which say to.

Speaker 2 [00:37:01] Me.

Dr. John Johnson [00:37:02] No, no, they're. You're very nice people. You know who they are? Very nice people. That is, they're people that are fun to be with. They'll say, Hey, I want to go out for dinner. My wife and I, like, take you guys out. And they're just fun to be with. They're nice. They show up for church. But what, they don't really contribute. You don't. You know, when you have really things that you've really got to do, they're just seemingly not. They're always on vacation or something. Don't really give, but they're just nice people. How would we categorize them as ours here? What they would they they would be on and willing. How about able and able but unwilling. So what would that be?

Speaker 4 [00:37:55] Number three.

Dr. John Johnson [00:37:57] Kind of another form of our three, right? Yeah, maybe. Is that what they would be? Would they be our threes. They're able. They can do it.

Speaker 2 [00:38:09] Kind of frustrating.

Dr. John Johnson [00:38:11] But they're unwilling because they just don't really buy in. They don't want. What is the leadership style here? What's needed? What kind of leadership style is needed here?

Speaker 2 [00:38:22] More time.

Dr. John Johnson [00:38:25] If we look on our sheet here it is high relationship, low test. Does that fit with very nice people? Really not quite tested atom because you invest a lot of time in relationship and it doesn't really go anywhere in the. But yeah, you almost need to counter this with an S-1 don't you.

Speaker 3 [00:38:51] Tell them their strength and say, I would love it if you could post this. Give them something to do.

Dr. John Johnson [00:39:00] Yeah. And if they don't? What MacDonald, in a sense, kind of suggests is that you may have to a certain point, say, I'd love to go to dinner, but I can't. And if they were to say, well, is there something wrong is to say, well, yeah, I only have so much time to give. As much as I like hanging out with you, there are people who are serious about what we're trying to do, and they need my time and attention. It takes a lot of boldness, right? The last category are your VDP, as he calls them. Or you could almost too fineness to waste. You're very dependent people. Or he likes to use the word. I think you're very trainable people. These are the people who. Well, let me ask you, how would you describe them?

Speaker 2 [00:39:57] Use all your energy.

Dr. John Johnson [00:39:59] Yeah, they require a lot of energy because they're.

Speaker 3 [00:40:05] They bring up problems?

Speaker 2 [00:40:06] Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [00:40:07] Needy. Very needy. Come with a lot of problems. Life is mainly a crisis. They can be the people whom prayer meetings dominate the prayer meeting to the point where the prayer meeting starts to get smaller and smaller. And you discover that people are saying, I used to go, but we're always listened to. And life just got tired of listening to aunt's life. You know what I'm talking about? So what kind of style of leadership is required here? What they want is a high relationship.

Speaker 2 [00:40:43] That you can't get it.

Dr. John Johnson [00:40:44] But if you give a high relationship low task, which is what s three, what if you apply s three to this person?

Speaker 2 [00:40:58] It won't be enough. You want more? Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [00:41:02] The danger is if we. For maybe either one of these is we slide into an SE three quarter relationship. Not really challenging them to do anything. And what you do, especially here, is that you perpetuate this, don't you? Maybe you might have to make the hard decision to be. What kind of leader? What would you think? S1 But where that breaks down a little bit is their high need meeting a lot of relationship.

Speaker 4 [00:41:39] I think you have to sort it out because some some people in this category, if you give them a task, it'll get their mind off their problems and help them. But some people maybe they maybe they need therapy or something and you have to.

Dr. John Johnson [00:41:51] Yeah, it's hard, hard to know. And so I remember this McDonald's put it this way. He said, Our tendency as leaders, if we're not careful, I'll catch this, because it was really insightful to me is that we will spend almost all of our time here. And the main reason is because we like to feel needed. Leaders like to feel like somebody out there really needs me. So nice people, dependent people, they want your time. The first two don't necessarily need you. And we tend not to gravitate. Now, when you look at all of this here as a leader, where should you spend your greatest amount of time? But yeah, this is really where you should put your greatest investment of time, right? That's going to have the greatest fruit. That requires a high relationship and high task.

Speaker 3 [00:43:01] But they're the ones that are trainable and will give you the best profit.

Dr. John Johnson [00:43:05] Yeah.

Speaker 3 [00:43:06] Because they can go train, whether.

Dr. John Johnson [00:43:09] They are your future, our force, or to put another language there, your future V eyepiece and VR piece. But we can get sucked into the last to remember McDonald. He he challenged us. He said, Don't tell anybody this. Take your church directory. And then once you've done this, don't let anybody ever see it. But categorize all of your people. And I did. I categorized all the people. This was during my first pastorate. So I had this directory. I don't know how many families, about 340 people. I categorized every family. And then what I did is I took a piece of paper and I plotted out where I spend my time with who. And probably because again, I'm a bit of an S3, I found myself spending most of my time with V and PS and V PS. I realize what a huge mistake that was. So I started readjusting where I spent my time, and I started really giving a lot of serious attention to who my peers are. Part of how I learned this lesson, too, was outside of youth ministry my first real step into ministry as an associate pastor I work with a great senior pastor, was still to this day a very close friend of mine. But the undoing of his ministry and I watched it happen as I worked with him is that he got dominated by DPS and ended up that he spent most of his weeks spending time helping very dependent people who hate to say this, but three years later we're in the exact same place. And the church began to really resent it. And I remember more than once someone said, We're paying him to minister to five families. He got sucked into it. And I think looking back to a certain extent, he got sucked into it because it made him feel valued. So easy for that to happen. When somebody comes up to you and says, I'll exaggerate a little bit, but sometimes it's not exaggeration. Someone says, Oh, I don't know how I get through a week without some help from you on. A part of us goes, Well, I'm I'm glad I'm needed. But it can be debilitating ultimately to them and to you. So context situation in this case, what's the situation? What style of leadership is demanded of me require? Let me ask you, if you were to guess who you are in this without taking any diagnostic as a leader. So review this again. Look at your sheet. Look at this illustration here. S1 I task well relationship. Or high task, high relationship or high relationship, Low task or low relationship low task. What's your natural default button, if you will? What do you think you tend to to move to? Any guesses?

Speaker 2 [00:46:42] Began financially from three but high stress situations by default as to one.

Dr. John Johnson [00:46:49] Yeah. I certainly when we just lose patience with certain followers, we can become S-1 really quick, aren't we? I'm not concerned about how you feel about me, but I'm telling you, this is what needs to change. Yeah.

Speaker 2 [00:47:06] We are p on a top. Are in a relationship.

Dr. John Johnson [00:47:10] Resourceful, responsive. Yeah, Very resourceful. Somebody who is kind of a resource to you. Somebody that doesn't need you, but you need them. I have a village. I have three or four retired pastors got a lot of experience. They don't need me too much, but there are times I really need them. Okay, somebody else. What's your default button?

Speaker 3 [00:47:40] Oh, I was thinking probably as to our relationship and I enjoyed the wine and what I know. So someone.

Dr. John Johnson [00:47:50] Yeah. So you like to be in the thick of really bonding building relationship and feeling like you're right in there having to give a lot of help and teaching.

Speaker 3 [00:48:02] Yeah, I don't have a lot of experience.

Dr. John Johnson [00:48:06] But you can see then the challenge is to begin to let them go, right?

Speaker 3 [00:48:11] Yeah. And give them the task or not.

Dr. John Johnson [00:48:13] Yeah. Yeah. Give them the task. And then maybe one day almost give away their relationship. That's hard, isn't it? Yeah. You can see where they really need us to do that. Yeah. Marcia, what do you think? Can you find yourself as sort of by your hair leaner? Okay, so. So we know that's high relationship, so. Yeah. How do you spot an s four bent person? Just by their nature. What? What are they like when you walk into an organization led by an S for type? What are they? What do they look like? What do they sound like?

Speaker 3 [00:49:04] I think they're in the back watching.

Dr. John Johnson [00:49:08] Or maybe in the front saying something like, Hey, glad you're here. Thank you for coming. You all know your tasks. Try not to bother me unless you have something you really need because I've got my own things to do, right? And there's some people that want to get there too quickly and then leave people out there going, Help me, somebody help me. This guy isn't interested in helping. The other is if you have more of as2 or S one and you're very competent, there's nothing that can be more frustrating than the work with the micromanager guy. Would you give me some space.

Speaker 3 [00:49:55] For something else?

Dr. John Johnson [00:49:56] Yeah, And maybe could be. Could be a bit of a nest, too. So Sandy might think to herself. You know, I'm into relationships and I like to really instruct and guide people. And she might think she's really had a great day and maybe that our three or four person just goes, you know, I know Sandy means well, but she's suffocating me. She doesn't really trust me. She doesn't really think I can do it. I don't need her to micromanage my life. Now that can come. I'm not saying this true of you, but it can come because maybe we need that relationship or we like to control. You just have to always watch what makes you tick, Why you do what you do, right. Terri. What what what do you see yourself.

Speaker 4 [00:50:52] If you've got low relationship workouts and low consciousness? Well, I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 [00:50:58] Whether or not I.

Speaker 4 [00:51:02] Think I am as far because I do. I like to do my own thing. I'm kind of an introvert by nature. It's like I work in the Pentagon that what I do, don't bother me is what you have to do. Mm hmm. But I work hard at trying to not be that way. I work.

Dr. John Johnson [00:51:16] Right. But if you're not careful, there can be a little bit of. If you need me, I'm here. But please don't waste my time.

Speaker 4 [00:51:23] I don't come across that way, I'm sure. But what I do is, is I end up not checking in with people as often as I should. Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [00:51:30] And whatnot. The one thing is, nobody could accuse you of being a micromanager. I think.

Speaker 4 [00:51:34] That's true.

Dr. John Johnson [00:51:35] That just does not naturally work that way with you. Ten. What about you? What? Where do you see yourself at? You're in se what may.

Speaker 2 [00:51:51] I think out. In.

Dr. John Johnson [00:51:57] As three as three is where you Naturally.

Speaker 2 [00:52:02] Yeah. Yeah. Lord, Has that made me go backwards? Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [00:52:12] So since part of this is a little bit of assessment, so let's just do something here for a moment. So I'm going to put here Dominic, Adam, Marsha, Sandy Tan, Terry. I got everybody okay now, so we've done all four of these cultural, social, situational. So I want you to take a piece of paper somewhere on your notes. I want you to kind of by default, are you more of a authoritarian, hierarchical, egalitarian or individual, less tech when it comes to your leadership, as you must look at and see this context, where do you drift social? Are you tend to be a person who first instinctively sees the structure, the human frame, the political politician, or the storytelling or symbolic. And then here s one as two, as three as four. Got it. Now you're trying to. Man, you've just been given all this data this morning, but just as an interesting exercise at the end, once you categorize yourself in in terms of just maybe your natural bent. The glass as you instinctively first put on. Yeah.

Speaker 3 [00:53:57] Marsha. I go well, with the eight second one down hierarchical thing.

Dr. John Johnson [00:54:02] Yeah. Which means that you're comfortable leading, but, like, to work with a team. But you still comfortable asserting leadership?

Speaker 3 [00:54:16] How does that differentiate?

Dr. John Johnson [00:54:17] The EU is more egalitarian. We're all I don't have necessarily a higher role of authority or leadership than the rest of my team. Sort of to use, I think Terry's analogy, we're knights at the round table, sort of. We're all equal egalitarian. The hierarchical is that. We can put our swords down, but somebody is clearly the leader. And the first one you take the sword and cut off anybody that disagrees with you. In the last one. Nobody has a sword. Okay, so a h. E i. S h p s s1 s2 S3. As for so are you an h p S3 or how's that? I've never done this. Let's just see how people scale out. Hey then, Dominic. Okay, so what would you be?

Speaker 2 [00:55:26] I think I'm in hes1.

Dr. John Johnson [00:55:29] Hp.

Speaker 2 [00:55:30] As a form.

Dr. John Johnson [00:55:32] Okay, so hierarchical politician, low relationship, high task. I think it's kind of interesting. Go. Hmm. So what does that look like? What does that look like as a leader? Any thoughts? What kind of leaders dominate those today?

Speaker 3 [00:55:56] So you're not making your choices. So you are involved in. Good.

Dr. John Johnson [00:56:06] Yeah, but he's also S1. And what would the piece suggest? Can it say that, Tom and sensitive when it comes to leadership, he's pretty sensitive to power. Just knowing where the power is, if he's not careful, can tend to move over to the control side a bit. It's not trying to be an autocrat or that would be a goal. But it's not afraid of leadership. Not afraid of taking leadership. Tends to see himself as somebody who's willing to stand up and say, is where we're going.

Speaker 2 [00:56:45] I think a lot of it is coming out of my experiences working in ecologies of residence system lead a lot of.

Dr. John Johnson [00:56:54] People, a lot of our ones.

Speaker 2 [00:56:56] Yeah, diverse people. And I like to hear their their input. But when it comes down to it, I don't mind leading them and yeah, politics to walk through that is always Yeah I think it's fun. Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [00:57:12] Okay.

Speaker 2 [00:57:12] Adam I definitely think in our old age age, like when I'm having a little trouble, what I'm leaning towards is situational.

Dr. John Johnson [00:57:25] You know what pair of glasses you tend to see when you first walk in is the structure. Is that the human? Is that the political what's going on here or is that more the symbolic the story? What do you gravitated? So hhs33. So how does Adam as a leader look compared to Dominic is going to be? What would you think.

Speaker 3 [00:57:55] Or concern of what other people think about?

Dr. John Johnson [00:57:57] So certainly a more relational leader.

Speaker 2 [00:58:00] And I think you'd be able to. Better allocate the resources that are available because you can see individuals with gifts. Maybe.

Dr. John Johnson [00:58:10] Yeah, But sometimes you might look at Adam and go, He needs to move on here, make a decision. Any other observation of what Adam looks like as a leader by these categories?

Speaker 3 [00:58:26] Hopefully he's a good listener.

Dr. John Johnson [00:58:29] Yeah. He sees instinctively through the human frame, he sees people and he has high relationship, low task. He is probably doing a lot of listening. Right. But in my smother a bit too careful, not let people go. He might be more interested in how people think about him and might keep him back from making the decision he needs to make because he wants to make sure people like what he's doing.

Speaker 2 [00:59:03] Really?

Dr. John Johnson [00:59:04] Yeah. Okay. Marcia, what does it look like for you?

Speaker 3 [00:59:11] I'm definitely here after girl.

Dr. John Johnson [00:59:12] Okay.

Speaker 3 [00:59:14] I'm curious about the egalitarian. Frame of reference, but I. I just naturally, my experience and just my comfort level.

Dr. John Johnson [00:59:23] Okay.

Speaker 3 [00:59:24] Social. Human.

Dr. John Johnson [00:59:25] Okay.

Speaker 3 [00:59:27] And I'm definitely a loss to us three. And I say that because I work with children. And I find that parallels with my work with adults. I mean, I have just arrived kindergarten through third grade and fourth, third, sixth grade with the little ones. You know, you're just teaching a lot. And but it's both high relationship. And I find that I'm sorry. I'm making connections. I'm a schoolteacher and I'm a music director.

Dr. John Johnson [00:59:58] Yeah, but in that teaching, as they move towards fifth, sixth grade, you begin to move more and more to an S three as they move more and more to an R three, Right? Yeah, but in first through third grade it's a lot of R to s to.

Speaker 3 [01:00:14] Of the classroom.

Dr. John Johnson [01:00:16] I love you guys. Here's how you do it. So Marcia looks a lot as a leader in terms of where you tend to move to where your comfort zone sweet spot is is a lot like Adam. Right. Your leadership would look pretty, pretty parallel. Sandy, How do you look? I listen to me the same as much so.

Speaker 3 [01:00:42] Because I work right now and I need someone and I want him to take the task. And I know I can't go just as with that.

Dr. John Johnson [01:00:50] So hierarchical tend to define people.

Speaker 3 [01:00:54] And then I want to explain, but I. I want him to change.

Speaker 2 [01:01:02] So into this.

Speaker 3 [01:01:07] And a community group of five of them don't care. I don't really care about what are people thinking and discuss with them.

Speaker 2 [01:01:14] Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Dr. John Johnson [01:01:19] Okay. Ten.

Speaker 2 [01:01:21] And then I find myself again an my age social age situation as 20.

Dr. John Johnson [01:01:35] Okay, so your age and social. Come on. What is this? Everybody looks the same except me.

Speaker 2 [01:01:45] We are living in America. Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [01:01:49] We know. So far in this group, if somebody just have to say, Look, I don't care. We're doing this. Dominique's going to. But without Dominique so far, we're going to have a very good time. Just making sure you're okay. Okay. You ready? We can wait a little bit more of your. Okay, Teri, break the mold.

Speaker 4 [01:02:10] I have a hard time seeing myself.

Dr. John Johnson [01:02:12] Just your natural default.

Speaker 4 [01:02:15] On the cultural thing. I tend to shift a lot. It seems like when I look back on my leadership this past year, if I had to sum it up on probably hierarchical. I'm sorry. Okay, But sometimes I have less of a what? What's what's an authoritarian?

Dr. John Johnson [01:02:31] Okay.

Speaker 4 [01:02:32] My philosophy is authoritarianism. Some of you write my.

Dr. John Johnson [01:02:35] Personal, but you like to work with teams. Yeah. Okay. So it's a social you know.

Speaker 4 [01:02:42] I think I'm some yes, I do my teaching a I tend to use stories all the time. Star Trek.

Dr. John Johnson [01:02:49] Oh, okay. Symbolic. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 [01:02:52] Yo, I'm you to Essence. Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [01:02:55] So what's it called?

Speaker 4 [01:02:56] Isn't it noticeable to us? Yeah, well, it's situational. I mean, as far as. No doubt about that.

Dr. John Johnson [01:03:02] Hmm. Wow. Interesting. So what does that kind of leader look like when you put it all together in encourager?

Speaker 2 [01:03:11] I mean, yeah, really, It's the storytelling, the unique thing that. And applying the people together makes you maybe closer to them, to the art board. That's something that is my way. Maybe get some confidence, step out on their own.

Speaker 4 [01:03:30] And I think that's really true because probably the strongest element I have as a pastor is my preaching and my conversations with people organizing projects pretty much blow it, you know. But by the way, I tend to leave it to, you know, conversations or teaching and preaching.

Dr. John Johnson [01:03:50] You could look at this and go, Well, I don't know if I'd be the guy. It's not the touchy feely guy I get close to, but he's got great stories and he can inspire me. But I wouldn't say it's somebody I'm necessarily close to, but it leads.

Speaker 3 [01:04:05] The UW people to train them.

Speaker 4 [01:04:08] You know, it doesn't. My problem is because I don't delegate very well, because I'm always afraid, you know, I don't have any right to ask you to do this. After all, they don't get paid to do this, you know?

Dr. John Johnson [01:04:16] Hmm. So let's play with this a little bit. Just a couple more minutes before we take a break. What would this look like? This is obvious one, right? Let's say a s. S one. But would that be as a leader?

Speaker 2 [01:04:34] Yes.

Speaker 4 [01:04:35] What's. What's that? Which is the second one.

Dr. John Johnson [01:04:37] Well, I'll use se y structural. So terrorist.

Speaker 4 [01:04:43] Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [01:04:44] As the drill sergeant. Right.

Speaker 4 [01:04:45] That beacon right there, man, that you. I have.

Dr. John Johnson [01:04:48] This is a scary person, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. Our whole morning has been devoted to context. So to sum it all up, a leader, at least to use our categories, has to look through at least 12 different frames. And the more you can master these frames, the better I think we are as a leader. But not just know the frames. Know how to move from frame to frame, how to adjust what frame I have to see at a particular time. Those are the kind of things we have to do.

Speaker 2 [01:05:27] Which one? Which one would you say you are?

Dr. John Johnson [01:05:30] I know that I'm very much an age I probably tend a little bit to as an S three.

Speaker 2 [01:05:40] Structure for the second one. Yeah.

Dr. John Johnson [01:05:44] That doesn't mean I'm real tight, organized everything in order, but I just kind of like to know where everything's at and how everything is structured. I don't know what that makes me as a leader. I don't know. It's the first time I've ever thought in these categories. I've never done this. Put these together. It's kind of interesting, though, isn't it? Forces you to see what kind of leader maybe you are.

Speaker 3 [01:06:11] It helps me see that the tension. Weaknesses are. Yeah. Need to be careful, right?

Dr. John Johnson [01:06:18] Yeah. Like this helps me to see that before I say I'm a real. I like to see the vision where we're going. What's our mission? What are the strategic strategies to get us there? That's why I don't tend towards H here, because I tend more towards that and less towards making sure words everybody. I mean, I do I have sensitivities that I care about what people think, but I'm not driven by that. Okay. Time for lunch, everybody. So we'll see you back at 1:00. Okay.