Counseling for Healthy Relationships - Lesson 5

Dr. Waltke: “Father, we thank you for this very ready access into your presence, made possible because of the work of the begun in Christ. Thank you for your love that sent him to heal a broken relationship with you. Thank you that he came and showed your love to us and that he took our sins, identified with all of our sins, and took it upon himself. Because of him, we have this success. Thank you, Lord, that he was a healer of relationships. We recognize that the great problem we have is alienation from one another. We see it in the garden of Eden. 

Thank you that you sent those to the church that help us to understand how to restore relationships in truth with your Word. By credibility, as a result of this session of this case study, we may gain insights into how, into your desire to restore relationships. As a result, we pray that we will have stronger marriages and marriages that reflect the gospel of Jesus Christ. We have a picture of the husband, the picture of the Christ who died for his church; and the wife is the picture of a church that is in submission to the husband. May we picture the gospel in Christ’s name, Amen.” 

Dr. Karl Elkins: Thank you Dr. Waltke. Welcome back. I’m Karl Elkins with Christway Counseling. And we’re doing a four-part series entitled “Top Four Aspects of Great Relationships.” In our first session, we talked about our need to really have God given needs? We isolated 12. In our second session: what happens when the need alone is not met? It creates a kettle of hurt and we need to empty the kettle.

In our third session we talked about how it’s hard to give to the kettle if we focus on it, right? So we need to heal our lives, focus on our responsibilities. And in this session, I’d have to say probably what most of my clients say has been the most helpful: it’s a communication model that will actually help couples resolve their hurts. And it’s amazing how there’s 25 biblical aspects in this model that we probably won’t have a chance to refer to all the verses, but I want you to see it all come together with a couple now and help me do that. I have some good friends of mine, Mandy and Jason Willingham, who have been clients and they volunteered to do this. They’ve got a powerful story and a powerful ministry of how they’ve used some of these principles to empty their kill and grow closer. So I’ll turn it over to you guys.

Jason: Do you want to start? 

Mandy: You can. 

Jason: Well, like this, Dr. Karl says we started out as a client, both Mandy and I, high school sweethearts. I prayed and found my bride early. Things were great. We have three beautiful children that are growing up now. But not long after Mandy and I had got married, I had started a business and we walked out into that. As well as growing up, Mandy’s dad was a pastor and life was good.

If you saw us from the outside, actually you would think life was perfect, but it couldn’t be more opposite was the truth. We were dying a million deaths on the inside. Mandy and I got into a place where we really had placed each other as God. So I was her God and she was my God. And when all of a sudden our Godship started to fail us, then we started looking into other things. And that’s when I really started focusing in on my rights and no longer my responsibility as a husband. So that’s when I started looking at “I work hard, I provide for the family. I do all the right things that a husband should do, that a father should do,” but never really gotten past the surface level.

So, I started taking on the rights of what I should have. And as I did that, I walked out into the one thing I said I would never do, and that was have an affair. And as I walked out into that place, I made every argument I could in my own self how I was being done right, because everybody else was doing me wrong the first time. I’ll never forget it. Mandy confronted me about the affair. Like before that I had prayed, “God give me an out because I don’t know how to get out.” And so he showed Mandy to look at the credit card statements. Sure enough, I was calm. I was in this jury, I was convicted. There was no getting out of this. And it was a great thing.

The next thing we know weeks later, we’re before Karl. And I’ll never forget what Karl said. Karl looked at me after I had kind of explained where I come from. How did I get so far? How did it go down this dark road? And he asked me, he said, “Jason, where was the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden?” I’ll never forget that. It was in the center. He said, “So, Jason, what you have done is you’ve had a pass by every blessing and provision of God to sin.” And that’s when I recognized that I had allowed the enemy to give me so much self-focus on my rights that I never could see the blessings that were before me every single day in my wife and my kids. And so that’s where we found ourselves sitting down with this model. This really, it was not a model to us; this is life to us now. You have the thing.

Mandy: Yeah. And so, yeah. So it was, of course, devastating to me when I found out that I had just such a peace that the Lord was going to take care of this in the midst of it all. And I remember. Leading up to that, I had turned to this, to the kids. You know, I took care of their needs. I was, had just, you know…if I could just be a good mother. And I found so much joy and delight in that that I did. There were major areas where I had neglected as well.

And so going… I remember when we first went to go see Dr. Karl, I thought it was that million dollar hurt he talks about and the $10 hurt. And I was thinking, “I’m not owning anything because he did me wrong,” you know? And going through the process, it was so good because when I saw that real repentance, forgiveness came in my heart and I said, “Oh, I was the same way.” I was like, “Well, I’m sorry I didn’t pick up your dry cleaning,” and, you know, all of the things.

And that’s what we love with the model is that we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. And when we realize that, then we can say, “You know what my responsibility is to love in spite of how I’m being treated or what I’m being treated.” So this has been so helpful and we’ve been able to share it with other people too, on just—that gives hope. And I think that’s the main thing, is that a lot of times in marriage you can get to this point where you feel really hopeless, like there’s not a way out. And whenever you realize that there’s biblical truths that you can apply that God has given to Dr. Karl, we’ve been able to see. But, you know, looking at the Word and having this model, and so it’s been a huge blessing for us. There’s sometimes those areas that we’re both just like, “We can’t get past this issue,” and then we’ll be like, “We need to go to the model.” You know, we’ll pick it out and we’ll talk to one another. And it’s amazing how hope is restored and your marriage is renewed. And so it’s been a huge blessing in our lives.

Jason: And I would say that the needs are what have been incredible for me as a man. I always, always thought I didn’t have any emotions or real needs. And so the only real emotion I would ever show was anger. And so for this to actually—the model to show me that not only are emotions God given, but then I can actually communicate those to Mandy has been huge for our marriage and our life in general, because that’s really entering into another one’s world in that way. I know that I’m not some alien, you know, but I’m…this is how God has created me to be so that I can actually communicate that with my wife. And so that’s what’s been a blessing for us to really does it, to really work that out the right way.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Well, have you saved up as many, many years ago? Since that time you guys have had a really powerful marriage ministry with dozens and dozens and dozens of couples. In fact, they actually shared their story in front of their church. And Mandy had talked about one of the things that was most helpful for her about forgiving was to invest into the life of your offender. She actually started discipling the woman that he had been involved with, and she shared that, and then asked the church if anyone needed to forgive someone. “Then please come down and we’re going to have an altar call; we’re just going to pray for you.” Half the church came to the altar. So we’re excited to tell you some of the principles that they found helpful. And it’s been helpful over a longer time.

Jason: Yeah. Just to know everything all the time.

Mandy: All right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Well, I want to take you through what we call a 14 step model of communication. And I encourage you to download this. This session will not make a lot of sense without the handout. Okay, so you got out of hand out downloaded from the little training website, and we’re going to go right to this handout.

Now, this is designed for those who have been involved in our 18 hour program, and you in the audience have only been here for 3 hours. And this is the fourth and final segment. So I have to kind of reference a few of the things. The first step here is a warm-up, and the warm-up is basically: people commit to one of you like Christ more than deliver for the less of the hours lost to the first part of life. And secondly, they warm up by saying, “I want to see ways that I’m not like Christ.” Thirdly, I’m committed to focus always on the high Christ before I focus on the ways my partner’s not caught by Christ. The fourth form of step is a purpose to walk in the Spirit by spiritually breathing. That means we exhale sin and inhale Spirit. This warm-up step is really the last session: yield your rights to God, focus on your responsibilities, a purpose to do that. And then the sixth warm-up serves a purpose to emotionally respond. And that’s basically when your partner’s hurting, you want to express hurt and grieve [inaudible] as well.

So I’m going to ask you guys to go ahead and do your warm-up as quickly as you know how to meaningfully. In fact, can I lead you through a warm-up? “Lord, our purpose is to be like Christ. Lord, I want to see ways I’m not like Christ. You’re welcome to use my spouse to help me see that. I’ve purposed to take the log out of my own eye before I take the speck out of my partner’s. And Lord, I can’t do that in the flesh. So Holy Spirit come take this role, convict me of any sin that I need to confess. Lord I may have some needs here that aren’t being met too, so I’m gonna yield all those into your hands, and focus on my responsibilities. And sixthly, Lord, I purpose to emotionally respond with my partner [inaudible] In Jesus’ name I pray.”

All right, so I’m going to walk them through literally the 14 steps, just as if we were in a counseling office. And it is amazing how when couples follow each of these principles, they are able to resolve conflict. Now, would you say that it was wooden when you first did the first 100%? And most people don’t do it the second time because it seems so wooden. And I’ll tell you, they will be very, very wooden. I want to teach you a skill. And then we had sincerity like the first five, six times to do it. It’s going to be very, very wooden, but then you’re going to catch it. There’s a flow to it. You know, we could teach you a lot about tennis in here, but you’re not going to get the swing of things until you hit a couple on the ball.

Mandy: Right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: All right. Gonna break it up. I’m really not interested in teaching the model that I am resolving hurt, all right? So I’m gonna stop and start you a lot, just to teach the model.

Mandy: Okay. 

Jason: Okay.

Karl Elkins: All right. You’re warmed up. Your wife is hurting. Do you care?

Jason: I care.

Karl Elkins: Do you care enough to want to be a part of emptying the hurt you put in?

Jason: I do.

Karl Elkins: All right. Grab her by both hands. All right, stop. This is going to be one of the first things you’re not going to do. You’re going to take the shortcut. You’re not going to hold hands. No, no, no, no, no. You got to hold hands because that’s how it pulls them in close together. That’s the most powerful position they’re in. Close. Secondly, if he reaches his hands out to grab hers and she does this, what does that tell you?

Jason: Not there—she’s not there.

Dr. Karl Elkins: And if she’s all mad and wants to hit him. She can’t do that, if he’s holding her hands. So there’s a little security built in here too. So don’t forget this. And then you’re gonna be person one on the left side of the sheet here, which is we call the person in the hot seat. He’s the one owning the way he’s for her. All right. So let’s start with step two. Oh.

Jason: Is there any way— All right let’s see… Is there a way I have hurt you that I have not fully resolved? [Inaudible]

Dr. Karl Elkins: Right. Stop. Compared to how he normally addresses conflict. Would that be better or worse prior to learning this model? 

Mandy: Better. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: What makes this better?

Mandy: Well, it’s sincere and it’s to the point. It lets me be real.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Yeah. Most people start with “Sit down. I want to share how you hurt me.” But this is really starting with the [inaudible] principle, “I want to know how I’ve hurt you. Is there a way in which…” Okay. All right. So he’s asked, and now you’re at step three. You’ve got to speak the truth in love. As the Bible says, it is a powerful way to say that. And I dare anyone to send me a tip on how to make this better. I’ve had 4,000 people tweet this. I think we’ve got something really powerful. I call it the naked formula, the naked formula. “I felt like my need for blank was not met when you did blank. It would have meant a lot to me if you’d shown a little more blank.” And then we give the definition, which we’re not going to do on the film here. But, “I felt like my need for blank was not met when you did blank, it would have meant a lot to me if you showed more blank.” I felt like my need… E is event and C is character. All right? So that’s how you have to share your heart with it. Just like that.

Mandy: I felt like my need for security was not met when we were talking with our daughter the other day. And you interrupted and corrected me. I wish you would have shown— (At this point?)

Dr. Karl Elkins: Yes. 

Mandy: More meekness.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Okay. All right. So compared to how she normally shares her hurts with you, is that better or worse or about the same prior to learning this model?

Jason: So much better. So much better. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: All right. 

Jason: It identifies it for me because before she wanted me to read her mind and I should always read her mind. Now what she’s doing is she’s give me exactly what I did wrong. Yeah. In many times I’m—she’s mad at me, but I don’t know why that’s out here. I know the why. So I can. I can address the why.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Yeah. All right. There’s 50 reasons this formula is so powerful. Number one, how many events did she put on the table? One. Just one. Secondly, do you remember the event?

Jason: I do.

Dr. Karl Elkins: One specific memorable event is so important, if you can do it. Now, a lot of times when a man asks his wife, “Is there a way I’ve hurt you?” The wife is thinking, “Oh my gosh, he’s never asked.” And they want to vomit it all out at once.

Jason: Yeah, right, right. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: Don’t do that, resist the urge.

Jason: Yeah.

Dr. Karl Elkins: It’s one specific, memorable event. Secondly, do you know the need of the moment that she had? Security.

Jason: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Karl Elkins: He doesn’t have to guess. Right? And I find the thing that helps me the most is if my wife tells me what character quality, which I’d of shown more of would’ve fixed it. In this case she’s told you.

Jason: Meekness.

Dr. Karl Elkins: It’s meekness. Wow. Pretty powerful. Notice it was short or sweet too. Yeah. Sometimes when a man asks, or anybody asks, the other person just rambles and rambles and rambles. And about 2 minutes into his call, “I forgot what we’re even talking about.” He can always ask questions later. Clarification. So it’s good to get it out short and concise in the beginning.

The next insight about this is that—notice how he she could have said, “You didn’t make money for security when you corrected me and you need to show more weakness.” Well, every time you’ve used the word “you” like that, it’s like a finger poking his chest.

Jason: Yeah.

Karl Elkins: It’s easy to want to get defensive, right? But I like the definition of persuasion: “guiding your truth around the mental roadblocks of others.” And you did that when you said. “I feel…when you…it would have meant a lot to me.” Right. All right. So you asked, and she told you. And now we’re at step four. And I want you to see that little V on your handout. It says truth on the left, arrow on the right, and God in the middle. I’ll draw that diagram a little bigger and expand that. You have to ask the Lord this question, Jason. Ask the Lord quietly in your own heart, “Lord, is there any truth that I failed to show perfect Christlike love to my Mandy?” 

Jason: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: All right. Between you and me, do you think there’s any truth to what she said? 

Jason: 100% 

Dr. Karl Elkins: When you ask it that way. Isn’t there usually some truth? I mean, Christ is the standard. Chances are there’s going to be some truth.

Jason: Exactly.

Dr. Karl Elkins: But I want to point out that there’s also error in what our partner says many times. Now, if there’s only 1% truth and 99% error, how much of the 1% does God hold us responsible for it? 

Jason: 100%? 

Dr. Karl Elkins: 100%. How much of the error does God hold us responsible for? None of it. Why on earth do we tend to want to go down the error first rather than the truth?

You know, if I said to my wife, who told me “I thought my need for support was not met when you failed to take the trash to the curb last Thursday. It would have meant a lot to me if you had showed more [inadible].” There’s truth to what she said, but there’s also error. Trash day’s not Thursday in our neighborhood, it’s Monday. But I didn’t take it out on Monday either. So there’s truth and there’s error. Which path should I go down? 

Mandy: The truth. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: Which path does my flesh want to go down? 

Jason & Mandy: The error.

Dr. Karl Elkins: “Don’t you know trash day’s Monday and not Thursday.” Wouldn’t that be silly to do if there’s truth to what she said? You see you always take the log out of your own eye before you take the speck out of your partner’s eye. That’s huge. Now, then, and only then can you come over and take the speck out of your partner’s eye.

Jason: Right.

Karl Elkins: And for me, that might be “Wow. You’re right, I didn’t take the trash out. Would you please forgive me? And by the way, you do know trash day is not Thursday, it’s Monday?” Now, I would be careful with that if I were you. Just don’t ever exhaust the truth before you go down the error.

Mandy: Right. Right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: So if you get that the rest of this model really is a cakewalk. I’m just hashing out the details.

Mandy: Right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: But most people want to argue the error, and not see the truth.

Jason: Exactly. That was us.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Now, I don’t know how to teach this really well. But Jason, you probably learned that what I mean by the truth, I mean a much broader category than I possibly know how to communicate. If you don’t remember the event, you ask a lot of questions. “Now, where were we? What did I say?”

Jason: Right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: “I don’t remember that. But it sounds like something I would do.” 

Jason: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: So you can own it just on the fact that, “I don’t remember, but I think I would do that.” If you don’t remember, you don’t think you would have done that, but can you think of a cousin hurt? “Is this similar to the time where I interrupted you at this other dinner party or whatever?” 

Jason: Right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: If you can’t remember the specific event person, you don’t think you would do that, you can’t think of a cousin hurt. The worst you can do, or the best you can do, I guess you could say is, “Well I would agree in theory that that’s wrong. So if I did it, please forgive me if I did it, because I would agree in theory it would be wrong if I did it, and I don’t think I did it.” It’s pretty weak, but that’s the picture. 

Jason: Yeah it is. That’s right. Yes.

Dr. Karl Elkins: All right. So, you know there’s truth. The rest is just hashing out the details. Now, when you asked, you said, “Is there a way I’ve hurt you that I’ve not fully resolved?” You gave him four things in the—three things in the naked formula: the need, the event, and the character quality. Which did you give first? 

Mandy: The need. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: That’s right. But you’re going to clarify those things, but you don’t clarify the need first. You clarify the event first, because if you don’t get the right event, which is often the hardest part, you can’t get the right character quality. So those are three different questions there—four if you use the definitions, which we’re not going to do in our program. So clarify…

Jason: Okay. So are you referring to the time when we were talking to Ashton and I interrupted you as you were giving an example?

Mandy: Yes. 

Jason: Okay.

Dr. Karl Elkins: All right. Stop. Notice when he asked, he got a one-word answer. That always happens when I stage a couple. It will never happen for you at home. 

Jason & Mandy: [laughing]

Dr. Karl Elkins: It just won’t. He’ll say, “Are you referring to the time where I interrupted—” “Yeah, I was here, I was talking…” 

This is where a lot of the vomit is gonna kind of start coming out of the kettle. And I hate to tell you this, but you want it to come out. See the steam in the kettle is the problem. You want that nasty stuff out. Sometimes you just have to walk towards the buzzsaw and let all that stuff come out. Believe me, that’s the best thing that can happen. Yeah, but you keep reflecting it back until you get an emphatic answer, because that’s her facing her pain, mourning her loss, receiving comfort. All right, so you clarified the need—the event. Now clarify the need.

Jason: And you are saying your need for security was not met?

Mandy: Yes.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Correct. One word answer. Go to the next—

Jason: And you wish I would have shown a little more meekness, which means… And that’s one of the things that I have to say: the definitions you give, helps me tremendously with the character qualities.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Yeah. I would encourage you to download some definitions of character qualities. The definitions can be very helpful, but in a short program like that, we’re going to shorten that, and not do it. But meekness would be: yielding my rights to God, focusing on my responsibilities. 

Jason: Right.

Mandy: Yes. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: Okay. All right, so you asked, you shared, you’ve now clarified, right? Would you say that you understand it?

Jason: Yes.

Dr. Karl Elkins: You know, it’s amazing, if you get these three or four things about the hurt, you can understand every hurt. The exact event, the need that wasn’t met, and the character quality—the definitions can be very helpful. You get those things, you can understand every single hurt. 

Jason: 100%. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: Now, sometimes you don’t get the right character quality or right need. If my wife had said, “I feel my need for support was not met when you failed to take the trash out, it would’ve meant a lot to me if you showed more hospitality.” Cheerfully sharing food [inaudible] shelter with those God puts in my life. I’m not getting that, that doesn’t make sense. It’s okay to question that respectfully.  

Jason: Exactly. Right.

Mandy: Yeah. Yes.

Dr. Karl Elkins: “You obviously have a reason for saying hospitality. Why didn’t you say dependability?” And if we looked at the definition of dependability, she would say, “Well yeah, it probably is dependability.” Or sometimes she will correct me and say, “Well, no, it really is hospitality. It only happens on Tuesdays nights when we have our small group. You’re in there studying away, letting me get all the housework done, it would mean a lot to me—" Well, in that sense it really is hospitality. But it only happens on Tuesday nights. And I realize I need to help out instead of studying for the Bible study. So be willing to challenge or respectfully ask questions about the need and ask for clarification. All right. So now you understand, right? 

Jason: Yes. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: It is not enough that he understands it.

Mandy: Yeah, that’s right.

Karl Elkins: He’s gotta convince her that he understands it. And that’s the next step, validate.

Jason: I can see how that would have hurt you. And I would feel the same way too, if I was talking to Ashton or our daughter and you interrupted, and made me feel insecure and actually talking with her.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Excellent. Excellent. Now, that’s how you validate 90% of the time, “I’d feel the same way.” Occasionally you can’t really say that and mean it. 

Jason: Yeah, that’s true. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: So you might have to say, “Well, I can see how that would hurt you as a woman. I can see how that would hurt you as a mom. I can see how that would hurt you if you had a spiritual gift of teaching or mercy,” or whatever. You can still validate it, even if you wouldn’t feel the same way. Okay?

Jason & Mandy: Right. Right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: All right, now we’re done with the head; we’re going to the heart—the emotion, step seven. And there’s one word in the handout that’s important. What’s the keyword? Most people miss it. 

Mandy: More. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: More. He’s gonna say, “Tell me more about how that made you feel.” If he did not say “tell me more,” if he just says “Tell me how that made you feel,” what’s she gonna say?

Mandy: Awful or just I wouldn’t get it out, what I really felt. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: Yeah. “Tell me how it made you feel.” “I just told you how it felt. Weren’t you listening to me? That’s the problem with you, you never listen to me.” Now, we’re staging it, so you didn’t vent a lot. But at home, she would have vented a lot, and she would say, “I just told you, weren’t you listening? That’s what’s wrong with you, [inaudible].” 

Jason: Right.

Mandy: Exactly 

Dr. Karl Elkins: So, as picky as it seems, you have to include the word ‘more.’ Tell me more about how that made you feel.” All right. You asked, ask her one more time.

Jason: Tell me more how that made you feel.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Great. Now this is the primary vent valve for the kettle. I think you ought to let him have it. 

Mandy: Okay.

Dr. Karl Elkins: But, you gotta share it in terms of your feelings, not his behavior.

Mandy: Yes.

Karl Elkins: The tendency is to say “You were so rude,” “You were a jerk,” “You were domineering.” No, no, no, no. Say, “I felt alone,” “I felt disrespected,” “I felt hurt,” “I felt unsupported.” You can get away with a lot if you just start with “I felt.” 

Mandy: Yes. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: So let him have it, and start with “I felt.” 

Mandy: Okay. I felt that—well I felt disrespected in a sense. But it made me feel insecure that what I have to say is not important. And it made me feel like we didn’t have peace in the home. And it made me feel that when we were trying to talk to her, I had, I thought, a really good point to make. And I am a teacher. [inaudible] So I really wanted—I had an instruction that I thought would be important for her to know so that she would understand that I know what she was feeling in that moment. So when you came in, it kind of made me feel like my feelings weren’t valid in that place. And what I had to say wasn’t important. And it made me feel then like I wasn’t safe. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: Right. All right, now, this isn’t on your script, but when you get a lot of emotion like that, see, that’s the primary place for your kettle to empty. It’s probably a good idea to reflect back, “So you felt this… You felt that…” Just to make sure she knows that you understand how it made her feel. So try that, reflect back what she told you about her feelings. “So you felt…”

Jason: So you felt like you were really connecting with Ashton in a way that was really hitting the point and it was what she needed. But I was coming in and taking that away and in doing so, feeling like you had nothing to offer and really she couldn’t receive. Is that what you were saying?

Mandy: Mm-hmm.

Karl Elkins: Great. All right. So, you understand it, and now you’ve heard how she feels. Now is step eight, where you’re gonna—nine, where you’re gonna tell her how it makes you feel. Now, here’s what I do with my clients. It’s a powerful thing if you can train yourself to think this. But let me ask these questions that I challenge you to ask on your own. But here’s the first one. What do you think she felt that day you interrupted her in front of Ashton?

Jason: She felt as if she didn’t have a place. So she heard her thoughts weren’t right. And so yeah. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: That’s what she’s feeling, what do you think God may have been feeling for Mandy in that moment, he looked down in her heart and saw that heart he put there. What would he be feeling for her?

Jason: He would be feeling hurt for her. Yeah. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: Yeah. So if she’s sad for her, and he’s sad for her,  it would be of course, if you felt sad for her.

Jason: If I felt sad for her. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: So what do you feel for her that you put that hurt in her? The one you vowed till death do us part?

Jason: I feel sad that I hurt you that way. Yeah. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: Now, by the way, this is where you tend to land your confession. She wants to see that he’s broken and sad. If he were to say [in robot voice] “God has helped me to see how broke I was not to show meekness. Would you please forgive me darling?”

Mandy: [laughing] No.

Dr. Karl Elkins: She wants to sense some sadness, and that’s the God part. You gotta let God kinda break your heart.

Jason: Yeah, you do. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: And Corinthians talks about how godly sorrow leads to repentance. Godly sorrow leads to change. So it’s that sorrow that our partner just senses, “Wow they’re really broken, maybe they’re really going to change.” All right, that’s what you feel for her. And now you go to confession, step ten.

Jason: Well, God has helped me to see how wrong it was. To interrupt you when you have something to give Ashton. I can see how that hurt you, it makes me sad. Would you forgive me?

Mandy: Yes, I do.

Dr. Karl Elkins: “Yes, I forgive you,” is slightly better.

Mandy: Oh, yes, I forgive you. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: It was actually healing for her to have to utter the words. “Ah, yes, I forgive you.”

Mandy: Yes.

Dr. Karl Elkins: All right, we’re not done yet. So under step 12, there’s a sentence there that you’ve gotta tell your action plan, “In the future I plan to do blank, would that resolve this?”

Jason: Yeah. So in the future, I plan to, or I purpose to listen and understand the situation and what it is that how God has gifted you to speak to Ashton and how that would be less quick to step into the situation and be more quick to actually listen and really understand what Ashton is receiving from you rather than what I think I have to offer. 

Mandy: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Karl Elkins: And then end that with a question, “Would that resolve this?”

Jason: Would that resolve this?

Mandy: Yes, it would. 

Karl Elkins: Good, you really nailed it. I would say a lot of times, though, 90% of the time, people hit it almost there, but they’re not quite there. She said, “And yes, but I want you also to do this…”

Mandy: Well, I was gonna say that actually. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: Okay. What was it? 

Mandy: If you would, please, but come later to me and tell me what it is, because I could be…yeah, I could be off or wrong on that. So in that place I would like instruction, but just not in front of the kids.

Jason: Yes, okay. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: Now, isn’t that a good clarification? That’s why you tell them the action plan and end with a question, because usually your partner’s gonna tweak it just a hair. 

Mandy: Right.

Jason: Yes.

Dr. Karl Elkins: And that easily makes the difference when hitting the $51 mark and the $50 mark.

Jason: And the other thing that—you know, one thing you had taught us is that the purpose versus promise. It’s been huge for us because we purpose knowing that we’re humans and we’re going to mess up. But at the same time, we’re don’t have all these broken promises along the way, which are new hurts for us to go back through.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Wow, that’s a great insight. Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned that. Yeah, if you promise—while it can’t be good to promise to God and break the promise. But purpose means, “I sincerely intend to do it with God’s help, even if I fail, I’ll repurpose, I’ll admit it and purpose it again.” So, you have a good point. Great. 

Jason: Exactly. Yup.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Now, you just did step 12, and then step 13 sounds a little similar, but go ahead and ask it and I’ll explain it.

Jason: Did I fully resolve this?

Mandy: Yes, you did.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Okay. 12 and 13 sound similar. I want you to think of a diamond. A diamond has many facets. And step 12 is saying, “I was wrong to [recte not] show meekness and I plan to show more meekness. Would that resolve this?” And she said, “Yes.” And now he’s saying, is there any other aspect of this whole event that may have hurt you? And that is where she might bring in a different facet. 

Mandy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: So I’ve had—for those of you listening—if you have had a partner that has committed adultery or something, if the person who did it confesses one facet, “I was wrong to have sex with another person, would you please forgive me? And I purpose to be faithful until we die, would that resolve this?” And they would say, “Yes.” You’ve resolved this facet. Step 13 is: are there other facets? “Well yeah, we need to talk about the line.” 

Mandy: Right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: You need to talk about the line. So 13 is asking: are there other facets? And if there were another facet, you would just go back and start all over again. 

Jason: Exactly. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: But let’s have you just say, “No, that did resolve this.”

Mandy: No, that resolved it.

Jason: Okay.

Dr. Karl Elkins: All right. And then, step 14, is you’re in the hot seat. If there were something you were doing that influenced him to do what he did, would you want to know? That’s what 14 is. 

Mandy: Right. So is there anything I did or did not do that influenced you to do that?

Jason: No. 

Karl Elkins: And the way to end the zigzag is, “No, it was all me, but thanks for asking.” 

Jason: Yeah. No, it was all me. But thanks for asking.

Dr. Karl Elkins: And it’s kind of important to end it that way, because she’s giving you a little wiggle room when she’s—

Jason: That’s right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: says, “Did I influence it?”

Jason: Right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: I mean, you could blow the whole thing and say, “Yeah, it’s about time we got to that.”

Jason: Yeah, right, right, right, right, right.

Dr. Karl Elkins: You [inaudible] want to communicate that. But you also want to thank her because you meet 10 needs when you praise. “No, it’s all me, but thank you for asking.”

Jason & Mandy: Yes.

Dr. Karl Elkins: You meet 10 needs, which would be another subject for another day. But what if there were another issue? Zigzag. What if she had been late to pick you up and you were running late? You’re running out of time, and you had to jump in and get the job done because you’re running late. This would be the opportunity to say, “Well, yeah, I felt unsupported when you picked me up late, we’re an hour behind schedule, it would’ve meant a lot to me if you showed more punctuality.” 

Jason: Right. 

Dr. Karl Elkins: And then you would just go down this list and zigzag back. 

Jason: Right.

Mandy: Yes.

Karl Elkins: All right. Let’s have you do the whole thing from top to bottom, from the beginning without me adding comment as much. And that way maybe our audience can see it flow more naturally without the comments. So I’ll assume you’re warmed up, let’s start at step two. 

Jason & Mandy: Okay. 

Jason: Is there any way I have hurt you that I have not fully resolved?

Mandy: Yes. I felt my need for security was not met when you had interrupted me and corrected me in front of our daughter. I wish you would have shown more meekness.

Jason: Okay. Are you referring to the time when you were speaking to Ashton, our daughter, and I interrupted in your conversation when she was receiving something from you?

Mandy: Yes.

Jason: And you wish I would have shown a little more…security? No, I’m sorry, meekness. Which means…

Mandy: Yes, my need for—and then… Yes, mm-hmm. 

Jason: Are you saying that your need for security was not met?

Mandy: Yes.

Jason: I can see how that hurt you. I would feel the same way, too. If you had done the same when I was talking to Ashton and had stepped in and interrupted when she was receiving something from me. Tell me more how that made you feel.

Mandy: I just felt like what I had to say didn’t matter, and I felt derailed from what I was saying. And it made me feel insecure that you didn’t value what I had to say and that just I wasn’t important, and that you cared more about how you felt and what you wanted to say than what I had to say.

Jason: I feel sad that I hurt you. God has helped me to see how wrong I was to not give you security and interrupt you with Ashton. Would you please forgive me?

Mandy: Yes, I forgive you.

Jason: I purpose in the future, and I plan to give you that security when you’re talking to Ashton and show that meekness and knowing that she’s receiving something from you and I shouldn’t be interrupting you guys. And taking that time in the future to actually—if I have—if I see something to talk to you after you’ve talked to her. Did I fully resolve this issue?

Mandy: Yes, you did.

Jason: I forget ten, but I—no maybe I did it. Will you forgive me? Would you please forgive me?

Mandy: Yes, I forgive you. 

Jason: Okay, okay. 

Mandy: And then…did I…

Jason: 14. 

Mandy: Right, okay. And then, was there anything I did or did not do that influenced you to do that?

Jason: No. It was all me. But thank you for asking.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Excellent. Now, before you learned this model, how would this compare to how you normally would try to resolve conflicts?

Jason: No.

Mandy: It was awful.

Jason: Terrible.

Dr. Karl Elkins: What makes this better?

Jason: Well, one, we know the situation. Two, I’m able to then actually use words by definition.

Mandy: Mm-hmm.

Jason: Right? To affirm her rather than me just go, “Well that’s how I felt.” Or “I don’t know what. What do you want me to say?” Now I have something to say based upon the character qualities, and as well as the need that was not met. And that’s one of the things that Mandy and I would constantly do, was we would lovingly meet the wrong need all the time.

Mandy: Yeah.

Jason: And so now what this gives me is to, “No, wait—” And then I start to know Mandy greater. You know, because of those needs I keep missing. If I keep coming back to this—and so it really gives me that place—it gives me security to be that husband I need to be.

Mandy: Yes. Yes. And for me, I didn’t know how to verbalize how I felt because I didn’t feel that I should have needs. I believed that…that you should, if you’re Christian, and God supplies all your needs, so just buck up. And whenever I learned how to identify needs to express, then it helped me from not stuffing, not getting anxious and fearful because I can actually deal with emotions. 

Jason: Yeah.

Dr. Karl Elkins: That’s great.

Jason: Yeah. And as a business owner, type-A personality, I never want to conform. So when you first show me this Karl, I like jumped out of my skin. But I can tell you I love this because it does bring that security, and it is very wooden at first. But once you get to know it and you go to it, it’s a lifeline.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Yeah. I have—usually the higher the education level, the more successful people are, the worse they are at doing this. I had a PhD from Harvard and a lawyer that came, and they were the absolute worst I’d ever seen at following this model. And after about an hour, I just threw up my hands and said, “I gotta tell you, you guys are the absolute worst of anybody.” And it surprised me because he was really smart evidently, but you can’t follow directions. And I don’t know why you’re paying me to help you if you’re not gonna try it. “It’s not working what you’re doing, why don’t you at least try my way?” 

They went home at that point. We only had five minutes, they went home, and they just stayed in the model and they worked out most of the hurts. 

Jason: Mm-hmm, that’s us.

Dr. Karl Elkins: And they—everyone always comes back. Every one, to a T. It’s very wooden at first, but once you’ve done it about six or seven times, you catch it. There’s a flow. And here’s the flow I see: you ask your partner, they tell you the hurt. You talk to God, you talk to the head, talk to their heart, you talk to their hand, you talk to God. “Lord, is there any truth to this? Talk to the head. Let me understand this in the NECD.” NECD: the need, the event, the character quality, and the definition if you have it. And then you talk to the heart. “How’d it make you feel?” “I feel sad I hurt you that way.” And then you talk to the hands. “Would you please forgive me as I go change?” God, head, heart, hands. Top down: God, head, heart, hands. 

Jason: That’s right. That’s good.

Dr. Karl Elkins: That’s the shortcut. All right. So I wanna give you a few— Thank you guys that was really awesome. And would you say that when you do it at home, if you veer off the model, does it go well or bad?

Jason: Just terrible.

Mandy: No. It does not go well.

Dr. Karl Elkins: You know, I’ve learned over the years the curbs and the gutters that people—that keep people on the path to good communication. And when they’ve failed to apply these 14 steps, it usually goes badly. Could you have done this very well without the warm up?

Jason & Mandy: No. No. Impossible.

Dr. Karl Elkins: So the warmup is pretty important. So I hope you’ll have me back to Biblical Training to talk about the warmup. Let me just give a few more insights as you do this and a few things. When you start this, make sure you stay in the model. You would agree stay in the model?

Mandy: Yes. 

Jason: Please.

Dr. Karl Elkins: Also, another insight here on the slide here, is that when you come clean on something, it’s imperative that you become 100% clean—100% clean. And if you’ve committed adultery or those things… In my lifetime as a counselor I’ve seen when someone comes clean, 100% clean, we’ve had 99.9% success in the short run. I don’t keep long-term studies, so I can’t comment on that. I’ve had zero success when stuff comes out in stages. Because the partner’s thinking, “If I can trust you going forward, I think I can hang in here. But if you’re not telling me the truth about the past, I can’t trust you.”

I recommend you have Kleenex when you do this. A lot of times there’s tears. To get up and go get a Kleenex is probably not very helpful. I typically recommend the husband should go first, and unless the wife just has an  obvious reason that she needs to go first. I also suggest that you start with the easy ones first. Start with one you think he would remember and easily [inaudible] while you’re learning the skill. As soon as this becomes natural, then you can flip it to the harder ones. Allow it to be wooden at first, it will be wooden at first. One thing that moves your way from the woodenness is when you look each other in the eyes. It’s something to go, [looking down] “Is there a way I’ve hurt you that I have not fully resolved?” versus [looking up] “Is there a way I’ve hurt you, that I’ve not yet fully resolved?” Looking your partner in the eyes really removes half of the woodenness.

I recommend do all the ones you can do. The ones you get stuck on, just table it, save it for a counselor that can help you with it. But don’t let the tough one keep you from doing the others you can do. Don’t take shortcuts. You’re gonna wanna take shortcuts. You’re not gonna wanna hold hands. Secondly, you’re not gonna want to discuss the character quality, there’s 49 of those. And you know, “Which one is it? That’s just too much work.” And you’re not gonna wanna stay in the model. You’re gonna think it’s too wooden. No, learn it so well that it’s not wooden.

Now there’s three ways to do this. Number one, you could empty her kettle, adjust all her hurts, and then once you’ve done that, then you sit in the hot seat and you empty his hurts. That’s the safest. Maybe you should try that. If you want safety as you do this. It’s not the most effective. The most effective is you zigzag.

When you ask, “Did I influence you to do that?” Then you’re in the hot seat and you just zigzag and you peel back all those hurts like an onion. Probably a mixture of both is what most of my clients do. You do three or four, you do three or four, then you start zigzagging. And then, I recommend that if—oftentimes a man’s hurt that he wants more sexual affection, I recommend you table those until absolutely last. Empty the wife’s kettle first. It’s very hard for a woman to repent of that, give herself physically, until the wall is taken down that’s between her and her husband. “Let me tell you that I just feel dirty if I give it up when I’m mad. I feel really dirty if I…like a prostitute, if I give my partner sex when I’m really, really mad at him.” And so empty her kettle, many times she’ll pounce your bones afterwards. Just make sure you empty the kettle. 

So today what we’ve talked about are 14 biblical truths to help you resolve conflict. It involves our three-dimensionality: a spirit, mind, emotional—spirit, soul, and body. A conscience of our spirit, our mind, our emotional, our will. And it’s a powerful model. And unfortunately, people that learn this, they veer from it and they get stuck, they don’t resolve the conflict. But when they pull it out and use it, they’re amazed at how wooden it is, but how effective it is. And I hope you will do this.

So that concludes our series. In our first session we talked about “We Have Needs.” In our second series, we talked about “The Consequences of Unmet Needs,” a kettle fills up. Our third series, we talked about the thing that makes it hard to empty the kettle is that we focus on our rights rather than our responsibilities, and we need to change that, we need to yield our rights, focus on the responsibilities. And then our fourth session, we talked about a 14-step model of communication, which is on the handout, to walk you through hurts.

Thank you for being a part of Biblical Training on this series, “The Top Four Aspects of Great Relationships.” And I wanna encourage you to explore some of the other [inaudible] that you’ll find. There’s hundreds and soon to be thousands of courses that you can take on Biblical Training. Thank you for being a part of this. Let me pray for you as we close. “Lord, help us all to better identify and meet the need of the moment and make amends when we don’t. In Jesus’ name we pray. Amen.”