Theology and Practice of Evangelism - Lesson 12

Ministering to the Soul

This lesson is a critique of the evangelical church, and it describes the problem of the church's lack of practical relationship between faith and life. Dr. Tuttle observes that the church culture discourages such feelings, and even though the church talks about Christ, it validates only evangelism as the only good word. He offers solutions such as the need for more practical application of faith, the importance of church culture and leadership, and a call to action for the church.

Robert Tuttle, Jr.
Theology and Practice of Evangelism
Lesson 12
Watching Now
Ministering to the Soul

I. Introduction

A. Background and Context of the Critique

B. Description of the Problem in the Church

II. Specific Critiques of the Evangelical Church

A. Lack of Practical Relationship between Faith and Life

B. Failure to Address Contemporary World Issues

C. Negative Impact of the Church Culture

III. Solutions to the Issues in the Church

A. Importance of Church Culture and Leadership

B. Need for More Practical Application of Faith

C. Call to Action for the Church

IV. Understanding the Bible in Context

A. The Difficulty of Understanding the Bible

B. The Power of Biblical Encounter

C. Connecting the Truth in the Bible to the Needs of the Church

V. Worship and the Church

A. The Evangelical Perception of Worship

B. The Importance of Worship as a Way of Performing Activities

VI. Understanding the Hebrew Concept of Soul

A. The Hebrew Concept of Soul as Nefesh

B. The Importance of Saving the Whole Body, Mind, and Spirit

C. Fasting as a Way of Taking Care of the Body, Mind, and Spirit

  • In order to share the Gospel, you must know what it meant, and how people are understanding what you are saying. The gospel core is the least you can believe and still be a Christian. If the least you can believe is sufficient to get you saved, then the least you can believe is the most you can require of anyone.
  • Christianity is the only world religion with an understanding of grace. Your most important ministry will be helping people understand how much God loves them. The heart of the gospel is that God loves you. Sin happens when we attempt to live as if there is no God. God, since the fall has done everything he can to establish relationship. God wants to make himself known to you in a way that you can understand.
  • At the Fall, Satan gained control of the world. Jesus takes it back in Revelation 5 because he meets the qualifications. The core elements of the sermons of the apostles are authoritative proofs, prophecies fulfilled, God’s activities described, apostolic eyewitnesses and miracles proclaimed. You will be heard with authority to the degree you are willing to put your life on the line. You die spiritually when you rationalize sin. Wind moves from high pressure to low pressure. We access the power of the Spirit by repenting and believing. Two sins mentioned throughout scripture are self-reliance and oppressing the poor.
  • The lesson tells the story of a professor who faces personal struggles and overcomes them with the help of faith, healing, and learning to overcome sin, ultimately showing that it's possible to prevail over life's challenges with God's guidance.
  • Through this lesson, you learn the core components of the gospel message, its theological themes, and how to effectively communicate it for evangelism purposes.
  • In this lesson, you gain insight into leveraging your personal, church, and wider spheres of influence to effectively share the Gospel, overcome challenges, and expand your evangelistic reach.
  • Gain insights into ministry experiences and the power of faith, prayer, personal testimony, and baptism stories to navigate emergency situations that are bigger than yourself.
  • You will learn from this lesson that you are uniquely equipped to minister to those in your sphere of influence and that the church is indispensable for your survival. By treating others with respect and recognizing each person's importance, the church can become the living, breathing body of Jesus Christ.
  • In this lesson, you will learn that people are often hurting, angry, lonely, or tired, ministry requires dependence on God and rejection is important, preaching the text is key, our weaknesses can be our strengths, and close community is crucial for doing the work of the kingdom, while leading someone to Christ without providing ample opportunity for growth and nurture is a mistake.
  • In this lesson, you will learn about Charlie Haley, a man with a pastoral background who is currently involved in retreat ministry and considering going into the mission field abroad. The lesson covers topics related to evangelism and ministry, including tract ministry, follow-up and discipleship, and the importance of love and forgiveness within one's sphere of influence. The lesson also discusses the importance of building relationships and addressing felt needs with spiritual solutions.
  • This lecture begins as Dr. Tuttle is relating a story about a lady he met on an airplane. Jesus chose people as disciples that he could demonstrate by showing and telling them, and then depend on them to reproduce what they had been shown and taught. When Jesus gets too close, we raise the religious question to change the subject. As a result of the sin in the garden, we lost our ability to perceive reality beyond the senses. The Holy Spirit came, not to compensate for the absence of Jesus, but to guarantee his presence. We hold the truth, but the world sets the agenda and has the right to ask its own questions.
  • Often, it is implied that once you commit your life to Christ, all your problems are solved. The Hebrew concept of soul is body, mind and spirit. The Greek concept is that soul and body are separate, and that soul is good and body is evil. Prophecy and spiritual gifts are essential for the body of Christ to function. In the teaching in mainline churches, there is sometimes a disconnect between faith and life.
  • Trusting the Spirit of God is the key in this lesson. By remembering and trusting the Spirit, one can be utterly dependent upon God and do the hard work in preaching. Dr. Tuttle shares his personal experience of trusting the Spirit and provides context for Paul's second missionary journey, including Paul's conversion and early ministry, Peter's vision, and the conversion of Gentiles. The Spirit of God also taught Saul how Jesus fulfilled all of the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah.
  • Through a deep exploration of Wesley's Methodism and Calvin's Reformed tradition, you gain an understanding of their respective theological frameworks, evangelistic strategies, and lasting influences on modern evangelism.
  • Through this lesson, you grasp the significance of Wesley's Societies, their organizational structure, theological practices, and the lasting impact on modern church practices.
  • By exploring the Ethiopian Eunuch story, you gain insights on divine guidance, Scripture's role in evangelism, and early church inclusivity, while learning to apply practical evangelistic lessons.
  • Through this lesson, you learn to effectively share the gospel through action evangelism by understanding its theological basis, applying key principles, employing various methods, and overcoming common obstacles.
  • You gain insights into action evangelism's importance, principles, and various methods, while learning to overcome fears and obstacles, and equipping others for effective Gospel sharing.

Dr. Tuttle teaches three critical points around evangelism: how to share your faith story, what evangelism is and how to approach it, and that God has more invested in evangelism than we do – He is in control. God is at work. He wants us to, "show up and pay attention [to the Spirit]," and to care about people enough to "press" them by asking probing questions about what they think and what's going on in their lives.

Evangelism is essentially about the core of the Gospel, ministering in your sphere of influence and sustaining those you reach.

Recommended Books

Can We Talk: Sharing Your Faith in a Pre-Christian World

Can We Talk: Sharing Your Faith in a Pre-Christian World

Those who serve on mission fields in areas where Christian faith is not the dominant religion quickly come to understand a central truth: when one is sharing the gospel, one...

Can We Talk: Sharing Your Faith in a Pre-Christian World

Dr. Robert Tuttle, Jr.

Theology and Practice of Evangelism


Ministering to the Soul

Lesson Transcript

[00:00:00] Art. You go by Art, right? Would you? This article was written in 1963, and the reason I still have it. I want you to realize what regarding the mainland churches, how little has changed. All right. You mind reading it? Your pastor. I have a spiritual problem which has become so large it's disturbing my peace of mind. I'd like to tell you about. After receiving Grace in 1963, the family began to attend a conservative church in the neighborhood. At the outset, I didn't question much because I'd never attended church as a safe person. I figured that everybody knew more than I did. But it wasn't long before I began to get unhappy with my church experience. There was a pointless repetitiveness to the service, and the sermons were a collection of generalities. Christ was upheld, the Bible was taught, but there was a real hiatus between faith and life. No specific relationship to the contemporary world. And I didn't see that this was bothering anybody except me. The other principle the system seemed to be. Let me interrupt you just for a second. I know all your folks, your churches are nothing like this. But what Did you trust me when I say most churches are just like this? Carry on. Interpret the inner principle. All the systems seem to be that the individual accepted price, all the profits streamed down, and then they could see that among this group of people who presumably had accepted Christ, there were many continuing serious problems and that they weren't getting straightened out. They were in fact getting worse during this period of time, and I think they did grow spiritually.

[00:02:08] But the church seemed involved in a slow decline. I attributed this to the pastor and finally became so distressed that I was unable to be happy at church. I think now the pastor wasn't the only problem, but in any event, I knew that in my heart we had to leave. I felt this clearly. Even though we had come to know and love some of the people buried here in 1967, we took the entire summer to visit other churches in the area. These were all evangelical Protestant denominations. Although the service is different in format, but they all seem to have one thing in common. This was the lack of practical relationship between faith and life. Preachers all expounded principles. But there was an absence of a clear, poignant and formidable challenge to do anything about the problems of the world around us. Without such a challenge, people would walk out of church and never realize that they should be doing anything different. Let me be explicit. The minister might inveigh against materialism, but never stated how I could become less materialistic. He might say that I should love my neighbor, but never mention a single practical program available to me through which I could show my love for my neighbors and what next door he might preach against prejudice. But seeing nothing detail about civil rights, social justice, or what anyone could do if he wanted to feel involved. By and large, the sermons were like the one the old farmer asked his friend about. What did the preacher preach about sin? What do you say? He was against it, but I know he needed to do something to be happy, to be a happy Christian. I knew I had to get into motion, but the main component of my spiritual life, my church, I wasn't finding out how.

[00:04:00] And of course, I wasn't doing it. I must add that in 1964, I started attending Area Christian Business Businessmen's Committee. Now, this did did do something for me and me. I met men who would talk to others about Christ. I learned that I could too. I learned to be an open Christian. They have a functional commitment to Jesus. I learned not to care whether others knew it. Christian I wanted them to know and lauded as, let me repeat, many people of Christ. But even among my brothers, I found a strange lack of concern about the physical material conditions of others. I could see that the evangelical church was not merely inhibiting the development of these feelings, but actively discouraging them. The church was integrating youth, humanitarian and social action unless specifically aimed at conversion. Actually, the only thing the church validated with the gospel this was really the only good word that came after you got someone to accept Christ. You went on to someone else. Over the five years since you received Christ, I've agonizingly analyzed what seemed to be the situation with evangelical, what seemed to me to be the situation with evangelical Christian. And now I'm going to call a spade a spade to forgive me if I'm wrong. I think the evangelical church is sick, very sick. These are the reasons. I think so. Rob, You want to take it from there? Yeah. Thank you. By the way, Art, Well done. The church is a part of the establishment. Not only is it part of the establishment, it's part so establishment, in essence, that it made its peace with the world the most courageous thing of all. Three things which are which have a bad name, reasonable people in it is nothing specific about injustices, even the law.

[00:06:04] It doesn't help people keep up. And so nobody can be mad at me. They didn't do anything since World at Large couldn't care less if you talked about first of all, it's nothing. Sin isn't a threat. In town. The question is actually, is the regional crisis. On a personal level, the church has exactly this kind of culture. Mainstream smoking is essentially number two in evangelical culture. Evangelism is based on the cultural acceptance they've seen in someone who dresses things like. We tend to be very concerned for individuals because when you religious situations, we talk to each other and special guard. May I interrupt you just a moment? I cannot tell you how many case studies come to me where the person you're interviewing. Has been turned off by the church. Some of these stories, I think, are made up. But there's a common theme. That. When people visit our churches, they are not made to feel welcome. If a person is has a tattoo. These people were tattooed to understand commitment. Are their hair is long or what have you. Some little old woman goes up to them and says. Why don't you cut your hair and dress better? Now, what's with our little old women? How do they get that way? What's with our IT? I want to say little old man, because I don't want to be sexist. But most of the time, according to your cases, there's little old women who go up to people. Am I being unfair? Talk to me here. My mother would be one of those little old women. I've never preached without a town. Because she would come out of the grave. And get you. She would not only get me. She'd get me. And so to protect the whole congregation, I wear a tie.

[00:08:27] And when I preach, I wear a white shirt. I am the only one in the room with a towel, let alone a white shirt on. The only one in the room anymore. I never taught a class for 40 years without wearing a tie. You know why? That was simply my way of saying to my students, I'm going to treat you with respect. You don't you don't need a tiny more to treat people with respect. I need to grow up. What are we saying in church so that our little old women feel called to come up to someone who's visited our church, perhaps for the first time in their life and tell them they need to clean up their act. What are we communicating? What are we saying to give them that opinion? What are we teaching? And our churches are preaching from our churches that allow women to have are men, for that matter, anybody in the church to have those opinions? Dr. Towne One thing is this brings to mind that the senior pastor of this church said to me that the senior pastor is the cultural architect of the church, and don't ever give that away to anybody else. You know, if you're in a position of being a senior pastor and I think that idea of the church as a culture. And that everything you say, everything you do, everything you communicate in the bulletin and the coffee hour out in the lobby, in the parlor that all communicates and culture and it's all going in one direction. And as a pastor, if you don't take control what that culture is, it will form itself. And it may not be something that is. That's very helpful. Drew, would you mind anyone else want to say something about that? I have the junior high kids, four in the top junior high.

[00:10:34] God bless you. And I love junior high. But no wonder you spell your name with an eye. All right. Junior high kids, understand? I. Forgive me. Sorry, Fortune. In a small West Texas church, having the Sunday school room next to the friendly ladies class. Yep. That is what they were called. And they had the parlor. And I can think of a couple of instances. I know one time one of my kids, we had a table like this. He was sitting in his chair like this, you know, and he lost his balance and hit the wall. And within 2 minutes, one of those friendly ladies was in our midst, you know, Tunisia. And another time I remember was a girl. We were using the parlor. And this is a little graphic, but one of the girls had menstrual problems and and got a spot on the chair. And I mean, they were in the middle of me for that. I mean, it was like, okay, here's a question. How do you how do you how do we do better? How do we help our people understand that that culture is not the kind of culture I mean, Jesus ghost in the same area. And talks with a woman who's had five husbands and the ones she's living with now. I have a rubric. I have a case study in this book, someone out there where an old friend comes to see his. Former friend is old time friend, long time friend who's become converted and wanted to go out and visit some of the old haunts. And the question is, is the guy who's been converted ready for this, his old friend, to go out and visit some old haunts. And most of the students say, no, he's not ready.

[00:12:38] He wants to take him, meet him at church, or he wants to meet him at some small group or something, you know. And it will I have a rubric. I will not negotiate a relationship if the relationship takes more from me than I can bring to it. If I can bring more to the relationship than it can take for me, there's no relationship. I won't negotiate. And Jesus was the same way. Jesus never had the problem where there was a relationship where it was taking more from him. I mean, the man would make do with anybody. I mean, he really did mix with tax collectors. Had one of them as his disciple. He really did see Zacchaeus and a tree and say, Come on down. I want to go home with you. Zacchaeus. So I'm going home with you. There was no relation. I mean, Mary Magdalene, I mean. But, you know, the church had been trying to clean up Mary Magdalene for for 2000 years. They were, as it were, the were the Bible. Say she was a prostitute. Well, I'm not saying she was a prostitute. I'm just. I'm also I'm also rejecting The Da Vinci Code. What the author I tell, I say, what rubbish. And Diane says, you're being knee jerk, Bob. I had a woman in my face in China. So. But The Da Vinci Code is so wonderful, I said. I have a different opinion of that. I didn't go to the movie. I read the book. I did not go to the movie with intent because I thought it was rubbish because the so-called Zion movement pretended to go back 500 years. It went back to the 1950s, for crying out loud. Do your research. Don't take something like that that tries to say Jesus had an affair with Mary Magdalene at face value.

[00:14:26] Find out where this supposedly is. Dan Brown. I mean. Don't take that lying down. Do the research. You'll be amazed at how much you can learn. And she said, well, it's just it's just fiction. I'm saying, Yeah, it's fiction, but it's talking about Jesus who is not fiction. She says, You get you get too upset. I say, I read books of fiction all the time. Got them on my little Kindle. Got me one of those for my birthday. God bless me. And I read other rubbish sometimes. I mean, like mysteries, you know, and stuff. I don't read stuff that's vulgar. Vulgar. I don't read romance. Yeah. Yeah. Yet. Yeah, well, they do anything for me. What am I missing? Not a thing in. In way. Jargons, but put me off. The church has a culture, has a jargon which relates to its culture. And I like what you're saying. Your pastor says he's doing a good job of establishing the kind of culture that's open and inclusive. He's preached grace for 20 years and, you know, he had the church extend the grace to him that he didn't think they should. What do you mean? Well, it's not worth going into. But he didn't realize how graceful a church was until he needed it. And they said, you know, you've been preaching grace for good. That's a great story coming back to you. I think, Rob, I heard from say from the pulpit. But sometimes I think absolutely we should be biblical preachers. But God also has something unique to say to our churches in the word. And I think it's being able to connect what is in the truth in the Bible to what our church specifically needs to hear and thinking about the friendly ladies.

[00:16:33] How do you address that kind of issue without calling anybody out or or make them feel like they're being singled out? But address the idea of grace in this church in West Texas, in the parlor, in the junior high room right next door. And it's that's not an easy thing to do, but I think it's how do you get any more relevant than the woman at the well. All I did was read the story. You cannot know what it means until you know what it meant. I bought. Mine says the Bible. It's so encrusted in its culture that you'll never know what it meant. And he's wrong. You can know what it meant if you do the research. It's not difficult to understand what was going on between Jews and Samaritans. I can get that from Josephus. You understand? I can get that from Tacitus. And the power. Of that encounter, this woman gets up and just reads it. This speaks to us. You liked it. You want a copy? Why did you like it? I mean, that speaks to our culture. We we want to experience that kind of love. We want someone to see us for who we are. You know, occasionally, believe it or not, you won't believe this, but I'll get a compliment. And you know what God's taught me? This to receive compliments graciously. I want to be humble, but not too humble. If you compliment me, I'm liable to say that kind of affirmation is always needed and appreciated. Thank you very much. I blush. I want to live in the kind of world. I want to be a part of a kind of a church. That's like Jesus told you. People on the streets of Boulder, Colorado, were interviewed as to Christianity, 100% negative.

[00:18:41] And that same afternoon, the people of the streets of Boulder, Colorado, interviewed about Jesus. 100% positive. 100% negative on Christianity, 100% positive on Jesus. Now what? What's the disconnect, folks? What? What's happening? That's right, He did. The White House in South Africa. Wouldn't let him in the church. That's why I carry his picture in my wallet with me. You've seen it. You know what? You know what frightens me? I wonder how much of that spirit is still in me. What have I missed? What am I, Blind spots. What am I missing? Justin. I want to be named Jump. What a great name. What am I missing? Jump. We have so many blind spots. And those who think they know best sometimes are those who need it most. Had anybody read the book Inside the Mind of Untruth? Yeah, a lot of you did. Towards the end, he he talks about a woman who was I don't think she was a believer, but she was maybe a creative director in public relations. And she said, well, one thing you have going for you is that so many, so many churches do church. So it was more talking about, you know, not as much preaching grace, but just about doing church. Well, from from the standpoint of quality and that kind of thing. But I think it applies to Grace as well. She just said, you know, so many churches do it so badly. You can do a few things. Right. And you'll be you'll be miles ahead of most other churches. That's really inspiring and inspiring. You have the bar so low you don't have to do much to really stand out and make and be different. Write down from the word jargon. Worship is something that's done on Sunday morning.

[00:20:49] Evangelical worship is a routine you go through on a Sunday morning. The idea prevails that we work during the week and worship on Sunday. There doesn't seem to be any concept of worship as a way of performing activities. It's a way of getting conversing, directly involved in reading or whatever so as to glorify God. It doesn't seem to be a grasp of how much more important and useful act is the material of worship. And then they use this as some edifying to go one step further. Evangelical worships compulsive. The most it is isn't seem to be a functional understanding of the church structure. Maybe the auditorium or the house of God is his own body, and every day is a Lord's. For the evangelicals. Evangelicals stigmatized. About the machinations of the local church. They see these as enemies of the truth, even as we. Yeah. I've said in a couple of your case studies, the opposite of personal gospel is not social gospel. It's what? Impersonal gospel and the opposite of social gospel is not personal gospel. It is what anti-social gospel? Why have we pitted personal against social? When there are two sides of the same coin? Carry on. After all, they say Christ wasn't a social worker. He didn't come to symbolize the. Yet to which prevails is as preposterous in its implications as it is logical of this recent decision when challenged, the evangelical says. So this question stands alongside Would you want your daughter to name as a classical? It gives one the feeling that a person would ask such a question. Answer? That's correct. What is so. Define soul. Not not in the Greek understanding of soul, but the Hebrew concept of soul as nefesh. Body, mind and spirit. You can only contrast body and soul as a great concept, if not a Hebrew concept.

[00:23:10] Hebrew concept of Nefesh Soul. Hebrew word for soul. Nefesh is body, mind and spirit. So many Nefesh souls go into battle. It's not just spirits going into battle. We've gotten hung up on this great show. The great concept talks about. It believes that the world is the creation of some evil demiurge. So body is contrasting. But so body against soul you have to. God is a good God and a bad God. The evil God created the world. And the good God is the spirit that dwells within us. And the problem was with Paul is he speaks Greek, but he thinks Hebrew. So he asked to use terms, body and soul, but he's taking Hebrew. So whenever Paul is talking about soul, he's talking about body, mind and spirit. Please keep that in mind. Can you do that for me and for the good of your own soul? So, please. What? Body, mind and spirit. So when you're saving souls, what are you saving? The whole body, mind and spirit. So he's he's bought into the great concept of saving souls, not realizing that the Hebrew concept of soul is body, mind and spirit. So somebody walks into your church and they're naked. What do you do at Leicester? Unless you're a brick? You clothe them if they're starving, what do you do? Unless you're a stone? You feed them. And if they're in bondage to the stuff that would attempt to swallow them whole. What do you do? Unless you just don't understand the principle? It Tell them about the power of the Holy Spirit available through personal faith in Jesus Christ so they can overcome the stuff that would attempt to swallow them whole. Now, what part of that you're going to apologize for? We don't apologize for feeding the hungry, including the naked.

[00:24:58] Why would we apologize for helping our neighbors understand the power of the Holy Spirit available through repentance and faith? What's wrong with us? We want to divide personal and social. When soul is not just spirit, it's body, mind and spirit. Listen, George and I have gone on fast before. Not very long, fast. But we fasted, and after about three days, folks, it's no big deal. You lose your. You lose your appetite. We all start to die in our column there. For a while we were fasting just to remind our body that, Hey, you're important to me, but you're not all of me. So I fast my body. Sometimes I have to fast my mind. I read too much. Diane reminds me of that on occasion. So I have to go for a while where I don't read quite so much. I spend more time. Think sometimes I have to fast my spirit. I'm telling you, God help me. Sometimes the most spiritual thing you can do stay home from church. I need fast spiritually. So. But why? Because soul is body, mind and spirit. And spirit is important to me. I want to feed my spirit. I want to worship. I want people to hold me accountable, George. But my body's important. Don't you realize? Get this. What's more important? Your body or your mind? What's more important to your body or your spirit? Take a chance. What do you think? No. Nope. All equal alcohol. Equally important. You know what's going to happen? This whole body. I know it's not much. I want to Homer shoulders back. You know what happens? This old body when it dies. I won't have toasted, first of all. But then when Jesus returns, he's going to find enough DEA, DNA and the dust to give me a glorified body.

[00:27:02] Jesus was the first fruit. You don't think he's got a navel? I'm checking it out. I'm telling you, I must say. Jesus, show me that thing. The bite is just as important as the mind and the spirit. Now the body is not all of me. The spirit is important. Matter of fact, it's my spirit that will experience the reality beyond the census. After I die, I won't get my glorified body until Jesus return. He's the first fruits. And Paul was kind of conflicted as to whether or not he wanted to die. Now I wait till Jesus returned when he got him a glorified body. He was conflicted over that. Don't you wonder why? This is good theology, folks. Listen, I do more good theology in my evangelism court, not more. But I do do just as much good theology in my evangelism classes that I do in my apologetic classes or my doctrine classes I've taught at all. This is good theology. Wow. We're only concerned with saving the soul. Well, that's right. I'm only concerned with saving the soul because the soul is body, mind and spirit. I want to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the second in prison. Our minister to the body on a minister, the mind. I want to tell my scientist friends, grow up. Aren't you sick and tired of being stuck in the left side of your brain? And I want to feed the spirit. I want people to know you can experience the reality of the living God. You can experience the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. I mean, you you put that in the right contract. It really is good news. It's not just church talk. It's offering people hope. Please offer people hope.

[00:28:46] Freedom. Rob, sorry to interrupt you. You're being a really good. Then there is the evangelical disdain for useful programs of secular origin, as did works were weren't acceptable to God in as though any unselfish good works were not this spirit motivated essentially the point that one would have opposed that evangelicals would rejoice looking into. PS4 or someone else is picking up the tab. My impression is that Christians and the voice programmers. Protest is another. The early Quakers are lauded for their courageous protest. But today protest is a very bad name among evangelicals, and I believe that the organized evangelical church is to blame for the condition. This condition, by its refusal to take a stand on more specific issues, which it justifies by saying this is what God wants us to do. We should have our noses rubbed in the 58th chapter. What's the 50th chapter of Isaiah? What's it talk about? Let me show you what real fasting is all about. Let me show you what real fasting is all about. Go ahead. Number five restricted social club owners are quick to say that anyone is welcome in the church. But if the 150 showed up each week dressed in white garb, virtually demand that they shared the handcuffs looked like us. What if 100 black families during the church? Do we really want to be members of a church that was half black? Understand why the predominant thing in the mind of church groups are how we are used in a world full of misery as nations. There were problems like war, crime, delinquency, drug addiction, poverty, hunger, homelessness, racism, joblessness. Many others stalked the streets. All we can think of. You know, age groups. I can think of a dozen things to get involved.

[00:30:55] Take orphaned and homeless children alone. Why aren't groups sharing their experiences with World Vision, Foster Parents, Planning, Inclusion, Children's? There's the Good Neighbor Program here in Los Angeles. You can take an ongoing child right into your home. What's going on. That audience of prep classes for underprivileged kids take clothes and food, various places, paint homes in poor communities, visit institutions and share in numerous ways. Wouldn't a party feel better after we've done something? Number six, The church is comprised of performers and spectators, so-called worship services. So combining that, anything like individual actions and reactions of that, people had better be able to communicate with God through the words of a film where they want to have the chance to communicate at all. Even the pastoral prayer overrides once thoughts that nothing, nothing individual can take place. Why bother? The authorized performers do a better job than yes, we need a sermon. But just what has happened? The congregation of the Surely the Holy Spirit has to start with people urging them to praying and sort of see. But the church has blown up the Holy Spirit. He doesn't order worship. He doesn't. Now, you have to admit. Vineyard has gotten up past that. You have properties in this church. The full list of gifts, right? First Corinthians 12, Romans 12, Ephesians four, first, Peter four. You know, the only gift common to all those four gifts. Prophecy. When's the last time you heard a prophecy given? You can do it without manipulating people. The prophet brings the word from on high. The priest speaks to God in the word of the heart of the people. Some of us are Priest. We speak to God, the heart of the people, but the prophets speak to the people.

[00:32:52] The Word of God. So Jesus was both prophet and priest. Many of you had been called both to be prophet and priest. Don't manipulate people. I've told you if I believe that the properties prayed, prayed over me, I'd be. I'd have been dead 20 years ago. Don't manipulate people. God told me this about you. Oh, boy. I've seen it done. I told you, the woman said you want to. You blame property. Of course I do. You don't want to hear this. I said, you're right. I don't want to hear that. Keep your mouth shut. Thank you very much. I'm not going to put up with that. Or you. We read the Bible, for crying out loud. The only people who are vulnerable of that kind of stuff are people who have not read the Bible. That's why you need to know what's in it. You know that is wrong. There's a role for prophecy. Thank God for vineyard where all the gifts are being offered. But yet you're not laying trips on people. You're not coveting each other's gifts because the gifts are given by God to enable us to minister effectively, effectively within our own spheres of influence. If our gift, if our spheres are different, our gifts are going to be different. This is so obvious. Now. I understand. How people. I mean. I had a friend tell a story about a guy who in Kansas? A farmer. As a young kid, a young man, not a young queer young man stumbled, goes to a bar every night. And gets drunk and stumbles across the wheat field home. One night he's stumbling across the wheat field and falls in a well, an open well with water in it. And just before he goes down for the third time, he says, God, if you're there, get me out of here.

[00:34:57] I'm your man. Miraculously, someone appears at the top of the well and pulls him out and he's gloriously converted. And for the rest of his life, he's taking people to the same bar, getting them drunk on the same beer, leading them across the same field, pushing them in the same well, and hoping to pull them half up and drowned. Now. I can understand that, can't you? I mean, I can understand that if you're coming out of hell, man, you are. WOMAN You you tend to remember the experience you had when you're coming out, and you tend to identify with that experience. I understand that if you're coming out of hell and somebody teaches you how to speak in tongues, you're going to think that's the only way to get it. I mean, it feels so good. You want the whole world to speak in tongues. I understand that, don't you? Have sympathy for those people. They're not bad people. They just came out of hell and somebody said, You got to speak and talk. And there's classical panic, not the vendor church, but the classical Pentecostal people. I spent 20, 20, maybe 25 years from 1970 to 1990, traveling around the world, helping mainline churches understand Pentecostal gifts in light of their own traditions. You can experience all the spirit God has to offer and not leave your mainline church. Presbyterian can experience the gifts of the Holy Spirit in light of the sovereignty of God. Methodist in light of Wesley's Theology of Christ. Luther's Lutherans in light of soul, I fed a solo Scripture, the Roman Catholic and a lot of the sacraments. Both an easy one. Southern Baptist are a problem if your dispensation. If you're right, the work or the spirit of it.

[00:36:38] 150. Apostolic times. Not a problem. But you can teach most mainland people. But you can understand why Pentecostals are Pentecostals. And if you're coming out of hell. You tend to identify with the experience you had when you came out of hell and you tend to think, Whoa, it worked for me. I think it'll work for you. So you want the whole world to experience what you experienced when you came out of hell, even if it's pushing someone into a well. You can understand that. But you're also wiser than that. You don't want to you don't want to discourage people from experiencing the gift of the Holy Spirit. I'm an automaton talking fool. I've prayed in tongues in this room tonight. Now. You weren't aware of it? Probably. And if you were, you need an interpretation. And I thought to bring an interpretation. You're seminary students. I'm not telling you anything you don't know. I'm trying to teach you here. You need to learn about the work of the host, but you need to learn about deliverance. Somebody was saying that that Ashbury doesn't teach a whole lot about the work or the spirit. And I mentioned that SEAMANS teaches, of course, on Deliverance. And. Wilmore Remember I told you that I taught the theology of the Holy Spirit on the Wilmore campus? I think we're getting better at that. But, you know, we're overcoming 25 years of Stanley Jones, who is my hero. I love the man. I read his book, Song of a Sense, every two or three years, whether I need it or not. He was sick and tired of Pentecostalism in India, making Pentecostals out of Christians rather than making Christians out of non-Christians. I don't blame him. He went to Asbury Seminary and said, if you let Pentecostals, these charismatics in this seminary, they'll split it.

[00:38:47] And some of them would try to. He had seen it happen in seminaries in India. Right. You can understand that, can't you? You can understand why Astbury would be reticent to let students onto the campus that would attempt to split the campus. Have your tongue talkers over here and your non tongue talkers over here. Can't you understand that? I can understand why your dad would want to stand in the gap and help both sides understand. You know what the answer is? It's all here, folks. Read it. You weigh everything you hear me say and a lot of your own understanding of the Bible. And if you do not know the Bible. The task is clearly before you get into the word of God. I'm just giving this my best shot. That doesn't make me right. You weigh everything you hear me say in light of your own understanding of this? Read it. Get into it. No what it says, I'm telling you. Our churches would be wonderful if we read this thing. It's so full of balance. It's so full of stories like the woman at the well is so full of stories of like the Good Samaritan. Now. I think we've had enough of this. Go home. Read the rest of it if you haven't already. Especially his response, his reply, he says. And so, Pastor, this is why I have very limited enthusiasm for my church experience. My overwhelming conviction is that I could get so busy in the church I wouldn't have time to breathe. But that would become a part of the problem, not a part of the solution. I suppose I could be criticized at this point for not being constructive. Everything I've said could be stemming from a critical spirit which is actually sin.

[00:40:41] But I don't feel that this is the is the root of my reaction. And so I would like to make some constructive suggestions for what I think would make a better assembly of believers. First and foremost, the teaching must go past the level of principles, the naming activities which can be performed, organizations and programs that the church approves with, details of how to get involved in them. So and so forth. There should be a breakdown of the partition between performers and spectators. Don't you dare get bored. Three people should be encouraged to forego about 75% of their partizan socials in lieu of work nights for food and clothing ministries and so on and so forth. Four. To accomplish these things, people are going to have to give more of their dough and more of their time. Five. As people begin to have exciting experiences with Christian involvement, let's get them to share it with everyone. Let's encourage them to tell the things they've done or are doing to the congregation as a whole. Six. We should have more people in the congregation visiting and fellowship with each other. Perhaps in each group there could be one person who prepared to share his testimony during the evening. Seven. The wide use among the congregation of good modern translations of the Bible. Eight people should be encouraged in personal testimony. Nine people should be encouraged to express what they do or don't like about the Assembly's operation in an open way and the main service at intervals, perhaps an entire service could be given over to this kind of compensating tambo. Well, that's a thought. The congregation should be explicitly taught how to lead others to Christ. They should not be allowed to get away with the idea that asking people to come to church is the most that is expected of them.

[00:42:36] How many of your cases you feel like are? The main responsibility is to get people to church. I'm always asking you. Why are you. Why are you doing this? I just ask you to share your faith for somebody that's not churched and get their opinion as to how you're doing. I didn't mention one word about church. And most of the people are turned off at church. Why not lead them to Jesus and let Jesus tell them to go to church? Now I know it's important to you to get single out. You get picked off. I know how important you're going to him to get three devotionals about the importance of community, especially among laity. Please fall in love with this. It really is the word of God. The word from on high. Whoa. That's why I had you read it. When political parties or elected officials no longer give God a good name. You've. Yeah. Yeah. The problem with that is, in my opinion, people tend to identify conservative orthodox theology, religion with conservative orthodox. Politics. And there's a reason for that. You know why I'm orthodox in my theology. Because. Olsen, I believe this is the word of God. You know why I'm not Northern Orthodox come to politics. I do not believe the Constitution of the Word of God. We have to take amendments to prove it. I think the Constitution is a human made document and I'll respect it as far as respect goes. But I will not worship it. I will not worship the Constitution. Thank you very much. I'm a red blooded American. I'm a capitalist. But I think capitalism ought to produce better products and services and service, not avarice and greed. I'll stick with this as the word of God, not the Constitution.

[00:44:39] So I do not feel called. I'll wave a flag with anybody. And I'm. I'm a red blooded American. I truly am. And I get downright defensive of the dear old U.S.A. When I go abroad and people start to mouth off, I will get in their face. But by and large, Americans really do lack humility in global perspective. We're isolationist. And we're going to let the world go hang. And I'm telling you, the world won't put up with it no more. This it's getting smaller and smaller. Not a place on planet Earth. I think I haven't been within 500 miles except Antarctica. It's getting really small. It's scary. And I think I said that chapter and I have chapter on politics in my book, Shortening the Leap. If you are not on our list, I guess maybe it's on secondary reading or something. My wife told me not to write that chapter. I wrote it anyhow. Because. A lot of my problems with the church. Our political. Relate the party, the church's attitude toward politics. That's what makes it most difficult for me to believe how the church. Is it the church trying to do something about that comment? You know, back in 1969, apparently the church didn't didn't address culture. You know, I have to wonder if someone in the in the mid eighties or so said, we're going to do something about that. We're going to address culture and we're going to do it through politics. I don't think it really correlates. I think it's it's a result of Jerry Falwell. That was the beginning, really, of the right wing movement politically. It was racist back in the sixties. But by and large. Not so much anymore because it's not politically correct. I think even the right wants to be politically correct.

[00:46:40] That's why we were so shocked by these two folks who signed blindly this covenant which which said the slavery wasn't so bad. I obviously didn't read it, but I want politicians. To have the mind of Jesus. Is that so wrong? Now I'm for Christian marriage. I think the act of homosexuality is a sin. I have a right to that opinion. But if a homosexual wants to come to my church, bring it on. I'm not going to reject somebody because they don't agree with me. Neither are you. But most of the church does. We're homophobic. Asbury Seminary was when we we had to single out in our ethos statement the act of homosexuality. When it had that thing covered, it said sex is between a man and a woman. Why do you have to say it's against homosexuality? So. So the rest of the world, we prove to the rest of the world we really are homophobic. What are we thinking? The minute you put, you put ethos and the do's and don'ts, you're going to leaf out. Some don't. It's more important than your don't. Who said. Absolutely. Thank you, sir, very much. I don't know what I'm talking about, children. I don't. But, you know, I hope you know my heart's right. And I hope, you know, I'm trying. I'm seeking the mind of God. And I'm voting Jesus. That's all I ask you to do. I don't care whether you vote Democrat or Republican or independent. I really don't. As long as you'd vote the mind of Jesus and not your money belt. I want the church to understand that we have a responsibility. To the world. To speak the truth. Boss, big politics. All of you have had anybody questioning my politics.

[00:48:38] But I hope. I hope you don't think. I think you're an idiot if we disagree. I mean, you may be more right than I am, quite frankly. But at least I'm thinking. Listen, I'm asking the right questions, right? And you are. You're asking the right questions. We want to do the right thing. And we want the church to be interpreted not as a as a bunch of idiots. We don't want people to think that we have confused the Bible with the Constitution. It really isn't the word of God. And if you're going to wave the flag, wave it for the right reasons. I really do believe that democracy is the best way. You should have been in Spain during Franco's rule of Spain. You know, a Spaniard would tell you. Spanish used to tell me that. What do you mean? Telling us a dictatorship is wrong? We're. We're Spaniards. We need to be told what to do. Thank you very much. Go back to your democracy. We like to be told what to do. Now, am I going to argue with that? I think they're wrong, but I'm not going to argue with that. They want to be told what to do. I think democracy is the best way, but I can't impose my democracy on you. And the minute I do, I would rise up in my faith. I would jump in my face. I'd make my name count for something other than my heritage. Jump all over it. I want my name to be Jump. Okay. We're going to go home. Go to bed. To get up in the morning. He could be here at 830. We start right on time. I can't wait.