Mentoring in the Marketplace - Lesson 3

Karen Howells and Diane Paddison
Mentoring in the Marketplace
cm400-03
Mentoring 360
Lesson Transcript

Karen Howells: "We're delighted that you joined us today. I'm so excited to have this conversation with our three guests today. We've been having a great time just getting ready to to wind up for this discussion. Today, we're going to focus in this segment on the mentoring videos that you've been watching on really the 360 aspect of mentoring, where it happens both ways through generations with men and women and with all seasons and stages of life. So very excited to have today. Katie Rife, who's with us. And I'm going to ask her to introduce herself a little bit more. She's just starting a new role with Forward as the area director here in Portland. So congratulations and lots of great experience, both being mentored and also mentoring herself. Greg Sherwood, welcome. It's great to have you here. You've been involved in mentoring for a long time and also running a business and really in some leadership here in Portland, Oregon and beyond, in mentoring young men and women and seeing some real impact for the kingdom. So we want to hear more about that. And Diane Patterson, friend and colleague, wife, mother, awesome, author of this great book, Work, Love, Pray. I've got to get a copy. Very, very exciting. In addition to her work in organizations as a leader. She's also the founder of Forward, which we'll talk about a little bit more today. So, Katie, tell us a little bit, if you would, about how you came to this role forward. I know you've been in the business world and talk to us about what you've been doing."

Katherine Reiff: "Yes. So I've been graduated seven years ago from college and came back to Portland to start my career and have most of the time spent at a large construction firm working mostly with men. And it's been a steep learning curve for me. So I've really enjoyed that challenge of an industry I didn't expect to be in. But with that came a lot of challenges, I guess, and trying to understand my role there. And so I was I got it connected with Forward through Greg actually, because he has he had a small group of men that it's really not that small. It's quite a large group of men that he was working with and mentoring. And they were all meeting together in the mornings and talking about work and faith. And I was like, all shoot and girls come, I want to do it. And he said, No, but I know this lady named Diane that I got connected to. There's another organization. And so Diane and I were connected. And then we she asked kind of through the Lord, I just felt like got connected to really start forward here in Portland with a couple other girls, which really has changed my life my last couple of years as far as my perspective on what work is and vocation and calling."

Karen Howells: "So it's changed my life. Yeah, so awesome. It's just so great. Really great to see you in this role. And I can't believe it's been seven years. Time flies. You know."
Speaker 3, "I don't know how long."

Karen Howells: "Great. Well, welcome today, Greg. Tell us a little bit about your journey. You've got a lot going on."

Greg Sherwood: "Yeah, it's I think so. My day job, what I do by day, I'm the president and chief investment officer of an institutional investment advisory firm here in Portland who has national footprint. So it's a big job at 20 employees. And so that whole part of leadership and mentoring is you get to apply it every day. We've got five kids, so we're a big family. And but I think my whole life I've been called to mentor and disciple young man for as long as I can remember. So I've been doing this for a little over 30 years, and about 12 or 13 years ago, it dawned on me that there was a change going on within our community. And I thought with a couple of other gentlemen, what would happen if we went to college campuses and brought our platform, our credentials, if you will, and begin to work with college students through the through the university. And it worked. Students were interested. Faculty was interested in having us come back. So what's integrated into what's called Mentor 360 is what that was the start of it all. So we've got about 160 mentors, men and women that are vocationally very diverse, from military to engineering to construction, finance, athletics and so forth. And we create venues for students to connect with these professionals via their vocation. And we're on seven campuses here in Oregon, and we really target the top thousand students each year on these college campuses by way of their leadership position. So we create those venues for these can these relationships to begin. And we try to partner with the universities, both academically and by way of their curriculum and ethics and morals, but also with our students. And it's been a tremendous, tremendous blessing here."

Karen Howells: "And these are Public institute, not a Christian."

Greg Sherwood: "That's correct. Yes. So these are the state universities and. Yeah, exactly."

Karen Howells: "That is so exciting. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. Building into the next generation, which is exactly what God wants to do."

Greg Sherwood: "Right."

Karen Howells: "Oh, very exciting. I'm eager to learn more. And Diane, tell us a little about yourself. You've got many hats that you wear."

Diane Paddison: "Well, I'm just blessed that I had the opportunity to grow up in Oregon and move to the East Coast to get my graduate degree in business and then move to the center of the country. And my career was really through commercial real estate. So that 25 year career, which is still going on, I'm the chief strategy officer of Kasey Turley. I had the opportunity to be in the C-suite of two Fortune 500 companies. But at the same time, you know, even more importantly is my relationships. And I was single then married and had two children and then went through a divorce. The two broken, you know, broken years of my life and then was a single mom with two children and now am married to Chris. And we have our many Brady Bunch and have four children together and just be lively. It's just it's a little quieter now. They've all gone off to college, but, you know, it was definitely lively. And I think there's even a and a ministry there around blended families. But, you know, we really felt called through that platform God had given me and the gifts that he had given me that there was just a real need out there. And there were a lot of changes going on demographically with young women in the in the marketplace that helping them see their work as their calling and if they're gifted in that area. And but also understanding it's okay to have a priority around your relationships and that your faith should be your foundation through all that. So that's why I serve forward and wrote Work, Love, Pray, and have been really blessed to have met Greg and he's been a mentor to me also and then have met Katie. And you know, we've been working together now for almost three years, which is just amazing."

Karen Howells: "It's a great example of exactly what we're going to talk about. Yeah, so we are that example. Yeah. So tell me, Katie, how mentoring has impacted your life. You mentioned that a little in your introduction as a professional woman and as a Christ follower."

Katherine Reiff: "Yeah, I guess I initially I just have always felt the need to I, I'd never know what I'm doing. Well, it's like I never know what I'm doing. You know, I start a new career in an industry I don't know anything about. And I. Really don't know what I'm doing and I get involved with the ministry and I really don't know what I'm doing. So I have basic talents and skills, but I think a lot of times it's been helpful for me to have, you know, somebody else called it this, but I'm still in her name. Team Katie, you know, having multiple people in my life that I can say, Hey, I have a question about how to talk to my boss about this. Like, what do you recommend my approach be? Or I think, you know, and I obviously try to be solutions based when I come to them and ask questions. But I think there's so I have I have a mentor at my work that I talk to a lot. I have kind of a spiritual mentor. I have professional mentors I have. So I think I think what I found for mentorship, at least for me, is that there's not like one person that fits everything and the holistic aspect of my life that really I need to have a lot of people pouring into me and and really seeking out a lot of wisdom. Because if. Because I really do believe that generation before me knows so much more and I think just has a much more settled faith and has learned to trust the Lord and the journey. So I think it's been neat also to through forward and just been a part of actively mentoring and engaging mentors that just even for other people as well, just to see how many people out there really do have so much experience and want to and care about other people and want to pour into them. So yes."

Karen Howells: "I remember that as a young professional woman, I was really blessed to have specific women and men come alongside me. One of my first clients was probably my grandpa's age, and he was actually a funeral director, but he had so much wisdom about life and he loved the Lord and encouraged me. And it was huge for me, even though I have a dad. Mm hmm. It means a lot, isn't it? Yeah."

Katherine Reiff: "To be pursued and to be one of the things I had thought about coming here as women in general and to speak to and specifically really love to be pursued, whether it's by men or by other women in their lives, I think to be asked to be sought out and to really be cared about in that way is a true, authentic, a gothic type love. And so it feels yeah, it just feels really good to have somebody care just for no other reason than to care about you and interested in your life."
Karen Howells: "So to see you out. That's a great point. Well, yeah."

Katherine Reiff: "Yeah. And just that it's hard to see people out, but it's also worth it, too. And I think what I've learned from Greg specifically is that as you're, you know, he he'll talk more about it. But, you know, as you're seeking help, help from somebody else, too, you're also pouring into someone else. So it's this kind of."

Karen Howells: "Yeah, it is that 360? Yeah. Yeah. Well, \

Greg Sherwood: you mentioned owning a business as well as being the dad of five. Yeah. How has mentoring and being mentor even affected you? Because obviously have a passion for it, so somebody must have mentored you?"

Greg Sherwood: "Yeah. I mean, I'm old enough now. I think I can say the generations are a bit different. I think to me I came from a very broken situation, very dysfunctional, tough. Background. So I can't really look back personally to see a family structure. For that, I think. And I'm not so sure that we were seeking mentors back. Back in the day, I think there was a bumper sticker that said, Don't trust anybody over 40. Oh, yeah, I remember that one."

Karen Howells: "And now we're beyond that."

Greg Sherwood: "Right, Right. So I think things have changed there. I think these young people are much more interested in pursuing that. And I think to our credit, I think we're more willing to to be mentors. So. So obviously, those mentors, as people step into your life for different seasons, for different times. And I can look back to a couple that that had a big mark on me in business. I had a spiritual mentor when I was in college, and he remains one of my best friends to this day. So, you know, there are people that have marked me and guided me, but a lot of it is just by way of observation. There's different kinds of mentoring. I think that's one of things I would like to talk about the to broaden that term a little bit."

Karen Howells: "I'll say more about that. That's a great point. Yeah, I think Katie's already said it takes a village."

Greg Sherwood: "So it does. Yeah. Yeah. Some answer that. Yeah, I think I'm involved so involved with student ministries over these years that I think that the paradigm for discipleship or mentoring has sort of been limited. A little bit to the, say, high school or college age, and then we release them to the next step and off you go and so forth. I think. So that's the model. It's very high intensity, high touch, high frequency at a certain season of life. But when you get older and you have a job and now you have kids and all the other things that demand it becomes more difficult, I think, to live in that model. That's it, that high frequency thing. So one of the things we talk about with our members is the idea of expanding. I mean, if you can be mentored autobiographically, in other words, you can read a story by Abraham Lincoln and be encouraged to live a certain way, or you can have the week to week situation and there's shades in that sort of this spectrum, if you will, of relationships. So we encourage frequency, but sometimes the reality of that means once a month it can be once a quarter. Yeah, it can be a long distance. What we do ask our members to do is think in terms of a holistic approach to mentoring, which is maybe a bit of a twist. Typically your mentors are sort of segmented or siloed in the spiritual or the professional, or maybe have a life coach or a personal helping you sort of integrate this horizontal living thing. What about money, what about relationships, all that kind of thing. So what we're asking our mentors to do is think more through 60 and think to be able to have that spiritual formation piece while you're leading the company and while you're raising family so that you can bring that whole story to the person that you're sitting with. So I think that's what we're trying to do there. Yeah, Yeah."

Karen Howells: "We make all these separations that don't help us to live whole as God intended. That's very exciting. So I'm almost hearing in your story that they're part of your passion to mentor others is you know how needed it was because you didn't have that huge. And I think that's very timely in our world today."

Greg Sherwood: "Yeah I think yeah I think I've. I've never been through the process of cycle analysis or anything like that, but I think."

Karen Howells: "We won't do that today."

Diane Paddison: "I think."

Greg Sherwood: "I."

Karen Howells: "Have."

Greg Sherwood: "I suppose there's a part of that's just, you know, your life experience informs you and directs you in that with Christ as he transforms you sort of makes you in that way what you are. And I think for me, that was a there's some natural inclinations towards that anyway. I suppose hardwiring, I suspect. But yeah, the way life came about for me was, was influential and it's been turned into a real positive."

Karen Howells: "Exactly. Yeah. God uses the broken places and pain and even the confusion. And even when you do come. I know his family and watched her grow up because she went to the same school as us, our kids and Greg's the. There's still a lot you don't learn in college. I remember that. And my first job is like, Oh, did we have a class on this? What do I do? And to talk to someone who's been there and been through that, it's so valuable. So I love this, this mentoring connection and community here. How has Greg been instrumental for you, even in mentoring you as a seasoned, professional, experienced woman?"

Diane Paddison: "Well, you know, in every situation you go in, like Katie said, there's always a lot you don't know. Right. And I just felt really called to start this local group, the first local group for forward in Portland. And when, you know, that started, I was connected with a gentleman from Oregon State said, you need to meet Greg Sherwood, which is really neat. When I look back now, I don't think he would have thought that our relationship would be what it is today. And so Greg has really been my mentor around not only the network in Portland and the people that are helpful in doing what we're doing here in Portland with each of our ministries, but also just even bouncing ideas off around ministry and mentoring and, you know, pot holes. And so it's just really a blessing to have."

Karen Howells: "Because I know you've lived and worked in Dallas, right? And Portland isn't Dallas, right? Right. I mean, we have some very unique characteristics here and the networks are huge. Yeah. Yes, that's excellent. Yeah. So great. What have you learned as a mentor that you would coach others watching business professionals, pastors, students here studying to be pastors? Yeah. What advice would you give them?"

Greg Sherwood: "Yeah, I've given that some thought. I think, as I reflect back. So one of the challenges we have, I think, as believers is what we call the sin of presumption. What I mean by that is that because it comes to our mind, because it seems like a good idea, it seems ministry mind and so forth. Therefore, it must be ordained to have happen. And that's not always the case. So I think I've learned to listen a lot more. I think the tendency when you're mentoring or coaching or working with somebody particularly younger than you, and you can see around the corner, you've seen this story play out before. And how this ends is the tendency to sort of jump in and fix things and you presume to know things about them that maybe you don't really totally understand. I think what I've learned is the ability to listen. A term I picked up from Dr. Keith Anderson, who's the dean and the president of the Seattle School of Theology, was a what he calls holy, holy listening, which is, well, why W.H.O.? Holy, holy man, having the ears to hear and the heart to see what's making that person tick and listening for word God is beginning to show up in their lives specifically is really, I think, a different paradigm than I have when I first started. Yeah, that's probably been the biggest evolution and growth that I've had is to be able to hear the heart of a person and then speak where God is moving into their life in their particular story rather than, you know, my off the shelf answers for sort of every situation. Yes, it's more listening to their stories and then blending that together so that you're speaking from God's perspective rather than whatever I have conjured up in my head is the right answer. I think that's probably the biggest. Yeah, because then I'm like."

Karen Howells: "That's really great insight. And that's come up actually in all three of our segments, in our discussion, how important that is and how sometimes as believers, we're not good at that. We think we need to give them the scripture or tell them the way it is, and there's a time to do that, right? I love that term. I'll remember that. Yeah. Holy, holy listening. Yeah. So, Katie, how have you been able to use mentoring as a mentee now as you come alongside other women and forward and other people in the workplace?"

Katherine Reiff: "Yeah, I think just having a perspective of a mindset of mindset, of mentoring and discipleship has really just changed how I approach my work. And so there's women. So I think I've taken it to my place of work in my company and said there are certain women that I'm going to be intentional to reach out to, both up in the company as far as wanting to make sure I'm making a connection with her and listening to her experience as she's walked up through my company. And then also just the women around me realizing that I'm it's kind of that peer-to-peer mentoring or just kind of iron sharpens iron like within the workplace too. And I think just you can't have you know, if someone there have been times when people have approached me at work and said, can we have a conversation about a specific, you know, working with a specific person or with this, how do I approach this? And so being able to share that, share with them, I guess, and also hear what they're going through and just be there to support them, to have another a friend, a friend really a friend at work that is able to shed light on some things. So I think really that just walking alongside other women that are in my role has been hopefully that is just showing grace to them. I mean, at some point I just hope to be there. They're friends, so I don't have us intentional, like let's meet for every two weeks. But it's so it's more informal, I think, at work. And then I think through forward to just forward and then even other young women that would just get referred to it, you know, our group, but just making sure they are pursued and if they want to. So I think it has to be a mutual relationship where they kind of ask. And so yeah."

Karen Howells: "There's signals, aren't there?"

Katherine Reiff: "Yeah, I am open to that."

Karen Howells: "Really reaching out. Yeah. People are very different stages that come, you know, not only to our churches but to these organizations and to forward."

Katherine Reiff: "Yeah, Yeah. And just having a mindset to be looking for that and, and to be realizing that in any place I have an opportunity to care for somebody, listen to somebody, encourage them. I think whether informal or formal."

Karen Howells: "You know, it's interesting what a great gift her for listening is. And here we have all these tools now that we didn't have before in the workplace, electronic Internet, Twitter, iPhones, and yet that it is so noisy. The gift of someone to really sit and be with you is is huge and to break the isolation. We were talking. Shift us a little bit before the camera was rolling about a controversial area and mentoring. And that's not just men mentoring men and women, mentoring women, but not just cross-generational but cross-gender. Well, let's talk about that a little, because Diane's mentioned in all three segments that 72% now are of women are in the workforce. Right."

Diane Paddison: "That's women with children under 18 or in the workforce."

Karen Howells: "So to only have women mentors can be challenging or for men to only have men mentors. What do you think about that, Greg? Have you mentored women besides Diane and Katie?"

Greg Sherwood: "A whole bunch? Yeah. You know, I wouldn't say that I pursue women for that. I wouldn't say that. I do think. And this is controversial. I do think they're in it for the obvious reasons of the tension that sort of exists between the genders. And so I think that. It needs to be a mature person and their faith in order to be in that mentor role. In particular, the mentor you don't have as much sometimes controlled where they're at. So I think it's it behooves the person in the mentor position to have really strict rules of engagement. Even down to say, where do we meet?"

Karen Howells: "Yes."

Greg Sherwood: "And then why are we meeting? Mm hmm. And maybe even some boundaries about what we're going to be talking about here and things like that. I think those are the things I would share. But having said that, I mean, and I've talked a lot about this, and she's the expert on this, but the glass ceiling that exists for women in the business community and a lot of parts of the business and other organizations as well is real and is real. And one of the reasons is that they just simply don't have the mentoring, the relationships and all the things it takes to navigate into an organization in a leadership position because it's service and it's just always been thus. But it's it is changing. And so that's an area that I would love to explore. And when we're on college campuses now, more than 50% of the students are young women."

Karen Howells: "Right?"

Greg Sherwood: "And if you're on a small campus, it's more like two thirds or 70% are young women. So that's a reality that we're faced with in our small groups and our panel discussions and our roundtables and all the venues we create. What do we do with all these young women who are going to be moving into the marketplace and how do we help them grow in those areas? And so that's something we're definitely spending some time on, figuring out how we, the men, can come alongside them in a room with these rules."

Karen Howells: "Well, yeah. And I think with those rules of engagement, I think we can be a light to the world on how to do it. That's right. Instead of being so fearful. And I know as a married woman, I was careful to, especially when I was younger, let my husband know who I was meeting with and having very clear rules. I remember one particular business meeting. Some people came up to us and said, Wow, you have a really unique relationship to me and a male business partner I was traveling with. And it was it ended up being a ministry. But we had we had very clear rules and a way that we interacted and people noticed it. It was amazing to just take some thought. Katie, What's your experience about that and being mentored by Greg and others in the workplace? I know the gentleman you worked for was is a believer."

Katherine Reiff: "So yeah, yeah, it does help to have a believer who's your boss. So but, but even still I it's, there's boundaries like and I've, I've had good and bad experiences I think. Yeah. And so, and I've learned from those bad experiences and so I've kind of created my own boundaries. But I think, I think women need advocates and mentors. And I don't know if it's again, that's at a loose term of a mentor in your company that you're, you're communicating with frequently about, you know, how do I navigate this situation or how do I, you know, who do I talk to when I need this? And I've seen men be a real advocate for the women that are working for them and really need women needing that in order to have someone speak, speak for them and give them a chance. So, yes, I actually think in some ways, like it's necessary that you have a contact in a healthy relationship with a man higher up in a company just because they're going to be the ones saying, I can speak for her, I can vouch for her. She's good, because there are opportunities that women have in a company that are that don't have in a company that men do. And there might be, you know, events that women, you know, maybe shouldn't attend, you know, hopefully not inappropriate ones, but, you know, like dinners like cigar nights or, you know, like late at night at a bar with men. A company can do that. And the woman would probably have to graciously step out of that situation. So, you know, she and yes."

Karen Howells: "Let it because it's hard to go play basketball with the guys. I guess I'm five for."

Katherine Reiff: "So anyway, I tried it."

Karen Howells: "Yeah, yeah, yeah."

Katherine Reiff: "So there's just like some things that you just."

Greg Sherwood: "But you can't play golf."

Karen Howells: "And I'm learning."

Katherine Reiff: "Yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Plenty. I think I've been fishing that."

Karen Howells: "Yeah, yeah. So having not only that presence and that connection, also the male perspective is very, very helpful in business. I've, I've experienced that as well too."

Greg Sherwood: "But I do think that is right. There's a complimentary nature to the women and I think on the other hand I think women bring a perspective even to the business enterprise itself, that is. Intuitive. They see things that I don't. Those kinds of things. I think that. And likewise, women don't pick up on nuances that men are talking about and how things really work. Kind of street level type stuff that can kind of translate some of those. Yes. You may not realize what's happening here, but you're fired. You didn't think that. Moby translate for you? Yeah. So there's that issue. Yeah, I think that's very helpful."

Karen Howells: "Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate that. I, I did. Have you talked to some of my clients who still think there's no glass ceiling and it's imaginary and don't understand the unique complementary aspect that women bring. Yeah, I appreciate that. Diane. I have to have you get in at least your $0.05 on this."

Diane Paddison: "Well, Katie hit on, you know, a topic that I'm really passionate about. It's it's even a higher level of mentoring. It's called sponsorship. Yes. And I actually wrote an article for the Peter Drucker magazine around sponsorship, because when the Center for Work Life Balance and Harvard Business School and Catalyst did a study trying to see why is there this Gap glass ceiling, why do we have men that are progressing and women are not in the same numbers they found? The only single determinant was women didn't have sponsors. Right. And so sponsors are a little different. The mentors are someone that works in your organization, so they can basically say, you know, we need to consider Katie for that job. She's just as qualified as Mike is. And to have sponsors makes a huge difference. Also to have mentors. There's a study done around women moving from mid-level management to upper management, and if they have a mentor, whether it's a man or a woman, it's 50% greater. If they do that, they will have that next progression. So I mean, it's really the only thing through research that they have found that really different Chase that career progression and I think it's great sort of brought out was God made us both with different capabilities and what a beauty it is when we all work together and do it in a way that is pleasing to him. Absolutely. And the results and the impact we can have on others through whatever our organization, whether it's business or through our families or through our ministry work. It's beautiful."

Karen Howells: "It is it honors God's design and that respectful, complimentary relationship. I love that. Well, how has God actually shown himself to you? This question, I didn't send you ahead, but it's coming to me that we should talk about it. How has mentoring impacted your spiritual growth and how has God shown up in that, even if it's through a business relationship? Let's talk about that, Katie. No, I always get to go first."

Greg Sherwood: "To the youngest."

Katherine Reiff: "You know the least. Well, I. I really think that. I think I touched on it a little bit before, but just that when somebody is invested in you for the sole purpose of just wanting to care for you and help you. For me, though, as I was kind of thinking about it before I came, is really a picture of God's love for us and just feeling like someone cares for me, regardless of how messy I feel and what's going on in my life. And someone's here to help me and walk with me in that journey through it. I think it's kind of just a visual representation of the Lord's presence on Earth and just really bringing the Kingdom of Heaven down to earth and just being like, we are a community of believers and this is the church, regardless of whether we're in a church building or like we're in the workplace over, you know, on this hanging out, you know, in a coffee shop, I think. So having that perspective of like as I'm pursuing women that, you know, this for me is really one of the core aspects of my ministry, because I just wanted her to know she's cared for and loved. And regardless of where she is in her faith or her journey in life. And then similarly, I feel that when somebody gets to spend the time with me. So yeah, the time spent. I think for me that's just a good picture of like discipleship really is like what we're all about. Like, that's why we're here. It's to like, grow believers. And so it's neat. I mean, I love the more evangelistic parts of it to actually, yes, somebody doesn't know the Lord and they see your love for them. And that's secrets then. So yeah."

Karen Howells: "Are there early on even in their journey. I know you're finding some women like that at forward. Yeah. And does that happen as well And then. Oh 316. Yeah. I, you know, it would."

Greg Sherwood: "Yeah. I think I would answer the question of how does God show up in all of this and personally and how that. I think there's a twofold. I think one would be if anybody's been in a teaching role ever, whether it's kindergartners or collegiate college level course, the teacher probably knows more than anybody that the most benefit comes to the person preparing to to teach whatever the topic is. So when you're leading somebody, mentoring somebody to do it well, it requires prayer, contemplation, reflection, knowledge. But the other word. Yeah. And then the dispensation of any wisdom that comes through that. So I think that to the benefit of the person in the mentoring position, I think it's unbelievable in terms of what it does for your own growth in that aspect in regards to, say, how that's exported into the lives of others. I think what's always been a challenge is we hear sermons about spreading the gospel, even evangelizing our friends and neighbors and such, and we hear about disciples and others. Yeah, I think a lot of us sit there in the in the work community. Well, I'm a I'm just an investment guy. I'm in real estate, I'm in construction. How does this And we sort of get worked up and we sort of all walk out a little bit guilty because who like where and what how does that you know, when how is this all going to work? And so what we've tried to be able to do is bring people who love what they do or talent and what they do in their vocational calling, which I believe is sacred, and put them in a venue where they can win at this. Because I can talk to a young woman who is starting a business career. I get that I can help her talk about all kinds of things. Yeah, So I'm not coming just from a position of, say, in my weakness. I mean, I'm not a real spiritual giant. I'll never be a pastor. I'll never be. But I do love the Lord and he informs me in what I do and I attempt to live my life out in regards to my my life, my marriage, my business. And I can talk all day with Katie about that. I can do that."

Karen Howells: "Yes."

Greg Sherwood: "So let's get the people, lay people that are love what they do, whether they're 23 or 24 or they're 80. And we've got people, slaveholders eating that work with us. That's awesome. Connected intergenerationally."

Karen Howells: "Yes."

Greg Sherwood: "And also by way of vocational alliance, I think what's happening is this excitement that they can now begin to export this faith of theirs. And I think that's really been. I mean, the hidden secret for me, I didn't really expect this was the joy from the lay person. I was always targeting students, But I've come to realize that I think it's I think I'm not sure who is more excited about getting together these old goats that I know or young students. This is really, really fun."

Karen Howells: "It really is. And I just missed hearing you talk. I want to jump up and down and say, yes."

Greg Sherwood: "Yeah."

Karen Howells: "But Oprah didn't do that, so."

Diane Paddison: "She did jump."

Karen Howells: "Yeah. We we've made these silos in our lives. And I love that. Even that whole listening where we're listening for the all the aspect of the whole person and we're in a unique position for those of us in the workplace. I love that my pastor said once year you get to be with people that I will never meet, right? That I can't reach. And that was so that was affirming and challenging for me and helped me see a lot of my ministry starts on Monday. Yeah. Yeah."

Greg Sherwood: "Our university experience would say typical is poles here. Each university is a bit different in terms of its demographics, but 80% plus are probably non churched people coming to our events. So this really is for us, it's a very much a bit of an outreach and that the remaining 25% or so usually have some spiritual background. And what we've been able to do for them is empower them to be encouraged by the fact there are people in the faith community doing what it is, what they want to do, and has great hope for that. But it is an outreach. Yeah, fundamentally what we do is very evangelical, very cultivating seed sowing, you know, very exciting."

Karen Howells: "Yeah. We'll make sure we have your information to on the notes. So for people who want to contact you or Diane or Katie, they'll be able to do that. Well, how about for you, Diane, you've mentioned the challenging broken times that we all have. I know spiritually having support must have been important."

Diane Paddison: "Oh, definitely. Yeah. I mean, this world is messy, right? And a lot of times we get really confused and we get pulled by idols that are pulling us different directions. And so, you know, just having that support from a group of very close friends through a very tough time was what got me through. And even having the chance to every day really cry out, you know, God, I'm really hurting. This is the worst time of my life. I need you really, really bad right now to know that I had that strength through that time. And actually, this last week. And I had a friend here who's in the same place and, you know, having the opportunity to share my story, even though she doesn't have the faith. But I keep getting messages from her. I think I just got one while we were in the last session. How she's going to share with me a story about how she saw God today. So I just feel, you know, I just can't imagine it. And I love also what you're saying even about pastors and thinking about what we do during the week. We have this brokenness. But also, I remember a woman in Chicago, her name is Chris, and she said to me when we were interviewing her, Chris, how do you feel called to go into the workplace? And she said, You know what? I see we bring the people are going to head to Africa to get their hands laid on and prayed for. But I really would love it if they would bring all of us that go to work the next morning, because that's my mission field. And so I just think that that spiritual side of us and what we've been gifted with by the graciousness of our God we can use every day in our workplace. And it is a wide open mission field."

Karen Howells: "It really is. And we spend a lot of time there. Yeah, I spoke on that recently and I did some research and we really do spend more time at work. Yeah. And you know, family time is absolutely critical, but that's part of what we're called to do."

Diane Paddison: "Right."

Karen Howells: "It's so exciting how God shows up. Any particular satisfying times that you had, Katie or Greg? I love the stories where you saw God at work through using you in a mentor role. Probably have so many, it's hard to know where to start."

Greg Sherwood: "Actually, obviously, I have a very, very current story actually, too. So through the mentoring side of things, there was a young man that came to me. He was a freshman Oregon State University five years ago. Name is Justin and Justin. And then I came with a big agenda and networking. He wanted a job and he's doing what young people do. We know that. And so we struck up a great relationship. He came to Christ about a year later through this group of young men, which is a great story. Anyway, he's getting married tonight and I am marry them. So. Wow. It's, I think, an example where students and kids will come to you with mixed motives. But I'm there to help them grow in their faith and share that overtly and encouragingly. And and you love on these young people. And yeah, my, my encouragement to people is that, you know, these aren't three year relationships are typically you're going to be 30. Your relationship is reflecting with some of the group here earlier that some of the guys that I've been mentoring now for 30 years are in their late forties, which is a little bit frightening for me. But these are."

Karen Howells: "Because that means you're not for."

Greg Sherwood: "And who knew those high school kids that was meeting with? And I was just a few years ahead of him. I was still being a great relationship with him to this to this day. And he's a fantastic believer. And so that's the encouragement. These are two lifelong relationships. And there's no greater joy."

Karen Howells: "It's. It's wonderful. Yeah. My spiritual mentor is 90 now, and she's actively mentoring high school and college. That's us. And she's the youngest 90-year-old you'll ever meet because she's fully engaged in using her gifts for the kingdom. You know, and it's. It's inspiring."

Greg Sherwood: "That's why I look so exciting. Actually."

Karen Howells: "I was going to say I was going to say that passion."

Katherine Reiff: "That's why I asked him a question. Yes."

Karen Howells: "Really? How many do."

Katherine Reiff: "You mentor at one time? Because I think I mean, if you talk about a 30 year relationship with somebody and then obviously it's not like every week for 30 years, you know, but like, what is it? What's your, like sweet spot of how many you can have? Because it seems like the need is so high and yeah."

Greg Sherwood: "Yeah. That's a great question. I get that a lot. I think there's different capacities that your job and life would put of bears down on you sort of dictates the level. I don't know in my capacity I haven't yet reached that. I'm finding new guys every day. But I think of. I think for most people, I think I have what I call concentric circles of relationships. So I've got this interior group that and they tend to be there for a short season. I mean, one, two, three years or does more intensity. And then there's sort of they move to the outer circles and I try relationships that will touch. It's almost like they have a calendar mechanism, but they'll call me about every six months and it's just time to get together for coffee again. So in that in the broader. I don't know. Hundreds. Yeah."

Karen Howells: "Hundreds at different levels. But it's an interesting."

Katherine Reiff: "Thing to think that there's a shorter period where it's more intense and then sometimes it seems I won't say overwhelming, but at least for me, sometimes I'm like, Oh, I want to mentor somebody, but I already have to that I'm like, pouring into. Yeah. Is that how do you."

Greg Sherwood: "That's right. And so there's intensity here and then it begins to move away. And then as they vacate someone got tends to bring someone else in that, that is right. And so it goes."

Karen Howells: "And you can have a mentoring or coaching conversation with someone once. Yeah. And that still can be valuable. Absolutely. I have found it depends and I'll answer that because I think it's a great question. On the season of life. When I was married and didn't have children, that was a new season as I had this marriage relationship that was primary, but I had more discretionary time. And then when I started my business and I had young children, I was working very part time. There was no margin. I really couldn't do very much then. My kids are 23 months apart, but then as they grew up and went to school and I was in certain contexts, I could do a couple. And now my children are grown and I have more capacity. And my and I'm not starting a business and doing all those other things. So I think it really depends on your season and also your temperament. I know some people who do better with a few and go very deep and others of us who are more on the extroverted side. Craig you might be there are, are more multi relational. So I don't think there's a, there's a formula."

Diane Paddison: "Yeah, that's right. You know, I totally agree. I think to your point about seasonal, I think the concentric circle and hopefully your concentric circles then place it forward and they start mentoring others and I just think that's all a piece of it. Yeah."

Karen Howells: "And as your children grow, if you have a family, what we've noticed now with the 25- and 27-year-old, their friends come to us often even though they have great parents. So we see there's mentoring opportunities there, which is really cool. Yeah, I it's funny how God surprises us. Did you ever think you'd be marrying someone and now your own son here?"

Greg Sherwood: "I didn't ever get married, so."

Diane Paddison: "You know, actually my mentor, Trammell Crow Company, he was the CEO, married my husband and I. And I mean, you can have a huge impact in the marketplace."

Greg Sherwood: "That's great."

Karen Howells: "Very good. Well, our time is up. I'm disappointed. I want to continue this overmuch, but I am. This has been a really rich conversation. Thank you so much, Diane. Again, three times in a row."

Diane Paddison: "My pleasure."

Karen Howells: "Excellent, Craig. Really appreciate you jumping in and just your experience. And thanks for the difference that you're making out there in men's lives and young women's. And Katie, congratulations. You're all from here. And, you know, we never say we never say, oh, I know it all and I know how to do this. I think we would all totally agree. So many out there watching this that the learning curve never ends, especially when you're following Christ. So. Thanks so much. Thank you."