Mentoring Webinar - 02-Aug-2023 - Lesson 1

Mentoring with Dr Chuck Coker.mp4

Bill Mounce Okay. What's time? I want to welcome you all to this webinar on mentoring with Dr. Chuck Coker. A little bit of quick background. My name is Bill Mounce. I'm the president and founder of Biblical Training. When I started Biblical training in 2000, the goal had been to create a leadership training track. My concern was primarily about the state of unprepared lay leaders, otherwise known as elders in the church. And the problem was that while I was able to get a lot of academic content, I really couldn't find people that would help me with what is leadership? How do you find leaders? How do you train them? How do you nurture them? And then, Chuck, Dr. Chuck Coker came on the scene. Chuck has been a mentor to in the secular workspace, a coach to executives all over the place. And he contacted us and he said, I'd like to redo all of my classes, but I'd like to do them within the Christian context. And as we got to know, Chuck, we were ecstatic about that possibility, and I was ecstatic because now we're finally getting classes on leadership that would train future elders in the church and frankly, train anyone who wants any level of leadership. This particular webinar is going to be on the topic of mentoring. We've recorded six of his classes. I think two of them are currently published. We still have to film the class on mentoring, but and I think mentoring sometimes just as a form of discipleship. Same, same principles apply and it but it is not. You can do well. It's one-on-one mentoring or whether it's one on 12 with your elders or whatever, be the case. So I'm happy. We like I said, we haven't recorded the class yet. This class has generally cost about $10,000, maybe up to 15. We haven't raised them funds for it yet. And so if you'd like to donate towards it, that'd be great. There's a link in the chat where you could do that, but either way, we really appreciate you being here. And what we're going to do is Chuck is going to cover just kind of the highlights of what's going to be in the class when it comes out. Just the basic issues of mentoring, many of you of already sending questions to him. And he has woven those questions into his presentation. And so he's going to make about a 40 minute presentation and you are welcome to submit other questions through to the Q&A feature on Zoom. And we'll keep on 20 minutes at the end for him to answer those questions. But anyway, enough about that. And Dr. Kuchar, I should say, also was a seminary professor for a while. So anyway, I'll turn it over to Dr. Coker.

Chuck Coker Thank you, Bill, so much. And I'm excited to be here with you today because mentoring is one of the things that we often miss with our church staff and in nonprofit organizations and obviously in our in our corporations across America. So it's very dear to me because I've done some recent studies that illustrate that in nonprofits alone there is a 70% turnover in a five year period. And a lot of that is because there isn't that engagement, there isn't that mentorship, and it's almost 50% in faith-based institutions. So what we have found and the exciting part about today is I want to give you a quick overview of some of the aspects that can really enhance your church staff, your elders, your deacons and the other people within your fellowship. So what I'm going to start with is, first of all, what is mentoring? Well, it's really a partnership between a mentee and a mentor, and it's an opportunity for the mentor to share his or her talents and skills and experience and expertise. It requires a real investment of your faith, time, energy and thought. But here's the difference between mentoring and coaching. Coaching is a project based aspect or approach. It takes a short period of time where mentoring is a longer term relationship that focuses on learning experiences that foster the growth and the development of the people that you're mentoring. And it's done normally through feedback sessions. It's literally much more focused than. A coaching session is now. Before we get going, I'd like to differentiate between mentoring and discipleship, because many times many people refer to them equally where discipleship is that act of obedience From Matthew 2819 to where we move towards Christ's likeness. But mentoring focuses on building a specific capacity and practical application in a very particular environment. So it is very focused rather than building the whole person. However, it does encompass all aspects of life and how you operate not just in the world and business, but in your family and church, which we know are our first mission fields. But the important thing to remember, if you are considering becoming a mentor, is that you protect that mentee and you move them towards maturity within the focus. So what we're going to do when we talk about mentoring today is we're going to keep it in the context of a Christian atmosphere. But what it really boils down to is helping people to become more like Jesus within a specific direction or calling. It's that self-improvement or a personal development based on your experience as a Christian. So what you have to consider if you are thinking about becoming a mentor, is what are the best characteristics or qualities that you can bring to the table? And do you really get joy in that kind of service? Because it takes a willing heart and a desire to pass on to someone what God has done in your life. Now, here's the important thing to remember. You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to be a biblical scholar. You just need to have a desire to help and invest in other people. Regardless of your personality, because there is no perfect personality for a mentor. Next. Just ask the Holy Spirit to lead you into this process. Ask yourself questions like Who do I actually want to invest in? What kind of need do they need to grow spiritually, mentally, physically? And what kind of goals are they gonna ask me to be a part of? Next, you'll want to learn a little bit about their personality, knowledge and experience. And I'm going to cover that in a very short period of time. But most of all, as you go through this process, it's important for you to add in the things that Scripture has told you about what you're mentoring on, regardless of what that is next. Think about the mentee. The mentee is going to have to have a vision for their end results. They can't just say, well, we your mentor mentee. Well, they need to know what is the objective and they need to be able to communicate that to you. Otherwise, this is going to be an effort in frustration. Secondly, ask them, what do you really want to be known for and what are the principles that you as an individual stand for? And lastly, what will reaching that goal make a difference for in your life and the life of the people that you are mentoring? So your mentee needs to understand that they can relate to you. It's critically important because building trust is going to be the foundation of this relationship. Because if they can't trust you, they're not going to stick with the process and you're both going to end up frustrated. So let's talk about some key elements. First of all, you need to be able to be transparent with them. You need to be able to talk freely and they have to be able to relate to you. So that's going to mean that you're going to have to share some of the mistakes that you've made and how those mistakes impacted you so that they don't make those same mistakes. Next, the same person needs to show up for each of the mentoring sessions because if they don't know who they're meeting with, they don't know how to prepare and they don't know what to expect from you. And then when you move into the application session that we'll talk about in just a minute or two, the things that you give them need to be feasible, and then you have to sit back and empower them in a way that they know that if they make a mistake, they're not going to get yelled at or get frustrated. You're going to get frustrated with them. They need to know that the communication is going to flow two ways and that you're going to add in a little bit of spiritual flavor as you walk them through the direction that they're heading. One good way that you may want to start is by sharing your resumé with them, telling them a little bit about your background so they can discern where they can pull from and how they can use your experience to provide the shortcuts that they're going to need. Because the whole concept here that we're working on is growth. You see. We need to remove any tension in the very early stages of the relationship because the mentee needs to learn and grow. And mentors need to understand how that mentee is going to respond to their feedback. You see, there's two factors that you want to work with. First of all, once you've made contact with the mentor. Or the minty. You must create an environment of trust that we just pointed out. And then you need to identify from the mentee. Where is their humility level? Where is their motivation and where is their response to feedback? Several years ago I did a study with DePaul University on what it takes to be coachable and be able to grow and develop from that coaching process. 69.09% Correlation of success was based on humility. If there isn't humility, the chance of your mentee growing and developing is going to be challenged. So as you think about that, these are things that you will be able to pick up along the way. I also have some tools that I'm going to share with you at the end of the program where you can actually measure these factors. Next Stage two is critically important, and I say that with a fair amount of emphasis because Paul says it too. In the pastoral epistles, he actually uses the word show from Liesl, which means to encourage and develop to a well-balanced mind and individual. And that's really what you're trying to accomplish with your mentees, because there's three areas that are critical that you need to discern during the mentoring process. First of all, we know from Psalm 139 and Jeremiah one five that God knitted us together in the womb. He actually created a personality for each one of us uniquely. Secondly, Esther four four tells us that we are placed where we are for such a time as this. And that means we were placed in a certain family, a certain culture, a certain educational system, and with a very specific sphere of influence. Now, sometimes those behaviors in those cultures clash a little bit, but other times they work together. And that's the unique part about the third area that you want to be able to understand in working with your mentee, and that is their gifting, because spiritual gifts, in my personal estimation, come in four clusters. Those four clusters are displaying God's love, managing with God's principles which are behaviorally based. In other words, they're built into your personality. But then comes the supernatural. The supernatural is displaying God's authority and communicating God's mind, because those are only things that God can give you. You can actually measure their level of spiritual maturity with a fruit of the Spirit assessment, which I will make available to you also at no cost. So let's think about what we're really trying to identify in our mentee at this point. First of all, is there some assertiveness? Is there that humility and motivation within their personality to learn what you're going to share with them? Second, do they actually seek your feedback and then respond to it positively? And lastly, what's their motive for wanting this information and will they actually apply it in the process? So. At this point, you move into stage three. With the individual and after the introduction where the mentee and the mentor share their background, their experiences, and what's relevant to what they're trying to look for, they're going to begin to review their goals and objectives. And it's important that the mentee think about this before sitting down in this session, because if these are not identified clearly for the mentor, they'll get off on a rabbit trail and then this can lead to refer to frustration. But once those are placed there, what can happen is the discussion with the mentee can begin to refine and establish those goals and begin to lay out the first steps. And I'm going to give you a very specific approach to that that's going to streamline this and make it easy for you, then establish the timelines. What do you really want to work with timewise? When do you plan to meet? What is the focus? What are the meeting times actually going to be? So that there are times that you can exchange emails and interactions with during the process that will allow them to make sure that they are prepared for the meeting? And here's the thing that's important. The mentee and the mentor need to express a appreciation for each other and each session review and confirm the commitments. Another study that I had a chance to work on was the fact that in the communication process, when you interact with the person 62% of the time, there is not enough clarity from the person who's communicating to the person receiving to bring for completion to a job. So you have to remember, if you're an extrovert, you're going to go fast and people aren't going to catch up. If you're an introvert, you're going to want more details. So these are things that are important for you to remember as you go through this process. Because this is a deep process of cooperation and collaboration. The two of you have to actually lake your goals and strategically plan the dates for the program, inception, and when you're going to reach those individual goals. You share ideas, you think about things out loud and you term determine how you're going to work through this process and what it's actually going to look like. Because with different personalities, there's going to be different expectations. So identify once you've met, how are you going to communicate? When are you going to meet? And also from a mentors perspective, you'll want to make sure that you help support and help that mentee during the process by working with them. And one of the things that you'll want to do is personally assist them in the development of their smart plan that we're going to talk about in just a second. Now, at this point, what I want to do is I want to share my screen with you and show you the importance of this relationship. You see, the mentors responsibility is to help establish those goals, those priorities, and make sure that the commitment and the follow through is positively given and positively accepted so that the mentee understands each stage of the process and is open to that. The mentee, on the other hand, if they don't clarify their goals and have set meeting times, the mentor is going to end up in frustration. They also have to be disciplined. That discipline is going to be very critical as they work through this process because growing and developing is going to be through particular types of projects that not only will they do with their mentor, but they may need to seek them elsewhere from other managers that they work with other people in their church or wherever it might be. But most importantly, both people actually need to be prepared, realize that there is confidentiality in the process, that these schedules are necessary to be kept online, that there's challenging goals, and that the problems and the concerns are given respectively. So as we step back to this process, it's important that each person understand those roles, because as we approach these projects, after the priorities are established, these are going to be learning activities for the mentee. You see. There has to be three types of learning activities. First of all, developmental projects are critical. This is where you build those leadership skills through reading, research, volunteering projects, or professional development workshops or conferences. But then they also need to get out of their comfort zone at times and slip into networking opportunities. The mentee has to realize that the mentor can't solve all of their issues for them. They need to get a lot of different people's input. And the second thing that we found in building trust that was most important was being able to take direction from someone that you may not necessarily like or respect because the Lord can give good information through the most unusual people at time. As I'm sure you're all know. Thirdly, we want to make sure. That the projects that we're building with our mentees are challenging. Make them stretch assignments. Make them outside of your group, your department, or the leadership role to see how well they build that flexibility. So let's review a little bit. Let's start off. Our first goal is what's the end result? It's Stephen Covey's concept. Begin with the end in mind. We're going to set specific times and we're going to identify what is the level of quality that we're going to do. And remember a single goal. We're simply coaching them. But mentoring takes a little bit more time and it can stretch six months, maybe even a year. So the important thing to remember is that major goals that the individual. Is broken down into measurable chunks or a series of objectives that can go some way towards making it moralistic, realistic and achievable in the given time frames that we're working. So what kind of plan is going to help us do that? We're going to talk about what's been around for a little while, but it works and that's why it's been consistent over the years. And it's called a smart Plan. This email pretty specific. What exactly do you want to accomplish? And it can't be. I want to be a good mom or a good dad. What does that mean? I want to be a good mom or dad by reading to my kids. Every night is more specific, measurable. How are you actually going to do it? What are the steps that you're going to take in the process? Is it attainable? Can you put it on the calendar and actually measure where you're going and how does it fit into your schedule? As the father of nine children. I realized very quickly that if I didn't put it on the calendar, I wasn't going to be able to spend time with my children. So I dated all my girls and boys as they grew up. And guess what? They still talk to me. That's what you have to do. You have to have it on your calendar or it won't get done. Now, the second most important part of this is, is it actually relevant? Because if there's not a motivation on your mentees part, guess what? They're not going to do it. Lastly, what's the time frame that we're working in? I suggest that when you work with your mentee the first time. Set a specific time frame that does not exceed 90 days. And the reason why I say that is because if you don't serve it. So that they can achieve a specific goal fairly quickly, then it becomes a discouragement. Now, I'm going to walk you through what the Smart plan looks like right now. And then you can see exactly what it looks like. You filled in the information that you know about the individual. You summarize their shrinks and summarize their weaknesses. Now, why would you want to do that? Well, these can be limiting factors that actually keep your mentee from reaching their goals. This confident power personnel, this task oriented and a multitasker is probably not going to display a lot of warmth and may not relate to people. They may even be impersonal and have poor listening skills. So what is their goal? To have a positive interaction with employees three, three times a week? And that action, that actionable, measurable aspect is when they get a smile out of the employee, they know that that's reaching their objective for that particular individual. We connect at lunches or one on ones because that engagement that we talked about at the beginning of this program is what reduces the turnover and keeps people on staff or within an elder program for a period of time. In this particular case, we want to do that within a three week period of time. So what we'll do at this point is that we will focus on. Moving back to. Our particular program here. Now let's move in to stage five. Stage five tells us that we as mentors need to learn to ask questions. There's a great new book out called Leading with Questions that if you haven't read it, I encourage you to do that because. Questions are much better responses, oftentimes to clear up that 62%, that's not discernable. So let me give you an example. The Pharisees came to Jesus and said, Should we pay taxes to Caesar? Most of you would say the answer was, Give to Caesar. What? Is Caesar's. Well, wrong. Jesus said, Whose picture is on the coin? What did he do? He was teaching us a lesson. He was teaching us stuff. Often times we need greater clarity so that the mentee and the people that we're talking to need greater clarity. Second of all, it gives our slow brains a little bit of extra time to think and reason through. Jesus answered many questions with questions. And so it is less likely to set off emotional triggers when you give those bite sized feedbacks in the form of questions because it brings clarity. Second. It helps with the accountability process. And here's the one thing that I want you to remember. The mentor and the mentee need to develop a level of intimacy because there will never be accountability if there is not intimacy. So let's talk about now. Okay. How do we actually make this process work? Let's try to bring it together here. First of all, we need to help our mentee envision worthy goals and inspire them to move towards goals after they make the commitment to those goals. Second, as a mentor, you need to listen respectively to your mentor mentee, and you need to be empathetic. You need to be the sounding board that they're comfortable asking questions and making commitments to help ensure that your mentee and is identifying and focusing on the motivation for that goal so that they will have the success and reinforce the need for that growth and development. Fourthly, use constructive criticism in a nonjudgmental manner based on their behaviors, and you don't need to confront negative attitudes. You can answer things very simply, like, you know. I think that's probably a good idea. But have you ever thought about doing it this way? Or what if we did it this way? What do you think would happen? You see, you've moved them from an area of being confrontational to an area of collaboration. And that's what you want with your mentee. You want that collaboration and that collaborative spirit to exist because the two minds are better than one. Those non-judgmental responses are critical because they're actually going to encourage your mentees autonomy. They are going to feel engaged. They're going to feel empowered. And they're going to gain confidence through these learning opportunities. Even if they make a mistake, because isn't sanctification all about learning from our mistakes? I think that's the way God designed it. And why Jesus died for us was so that we could afford to make those mistakes and grow from them. We do learn better from those mistakes than doing it right often times, don't we? Now, lastly, encourage your mentee to explore multiple options, to do things different ways because they may go to the first, most obvious tried and true approach, but help them color outside the lines, help them think creatively because there are going to be times during this process that they are going to have to be outside the box and they're going to have to be creative so you can identify their level of creativity as you walk through this process. Now, I've given you a lot of directions. Now I'm going to give you a few. Please don't do this. Don't be critical and judgmental. Don't tell them what to do. Give them some advice. If I were you, I would think about it this way. Help your mentees solve the problems. Talk through the process with them, and don't use particularly closed questions. Let them think out loud. Let them make assumptions and take advantage of opportunities to work with them rather than interfering with their process. You may also want to coordinate with the mentee and the people they work for or with so that they can have some interaction time. Don't make a promise that you don't keep to your mentee and don't give them false information. Last but not least. I'll close with this. You are not responsible for your mentees success or failure. If you invest in them and you allow the Holy Spirit to speak to you because you love them and you care about them because they are God's creature. And we remember what Romans eight one says. There is therefore no condemnation. And if there are believers, if God, stop condemning them, we can. So we are not responsible for their success or failure. Our job is to plant and water. It's not about bringing the results. So don't beat yourself up. If your mentee struggles a little bit. Now I want to end this particular session and open up for questions at this particular time. And we're going to be sending out my contact information if you have questions. I'm going to give you some free assessments about understanding your mentees behaviors and mindsets, their spiritual gifts and their level of spiritual maturity. All free. You don't have to pay for any of these. And if you don't use them, shame on you, because they're being used right now on 128 different countries at churches everywhere. Make use of these tools. The same way that Bill Mills founded this organization was to pour into you for the kingdom. So I want to pour in to you by giving you tools to help your mentee. And lastly, you'll be sent some information on my new book. Are you coachable? Which will be printed in the near future? And I'm actually going to give you the first chapter of the book if you just want to get those updates. So at this time, I'm going to open the floor to questions and more than happy to take any questions you have in the next 20 minutes.

Bill Mounce Then. Well, this is Bill. For some reason, I can't get my. We've started. Sorry, but let me start with the clarifying question record.

Chuck Coker No, This is a book that I've written. Are you coachable or not?

Bill Mounce I'm sorry. The leaving was questions book that you referenced.

Chuck Coker Yes. You can find it on Amazon, right?

Bill Mounce I. Do you see that?

Chuck Coker Yes. Look, let me make sure.

Bill Mounce So there are two on Amazon. And so make sure we get the right one. There's two. Okay. The same one. Leading with questions. Leaders find the right solutions by knowing what to ask. And then the update is leading with questions how leaders discover powerful answers by knowing how and what to ask.

Chuck Coker That's the second one, correct?

Bill Mounce It's the updated one that you're recommending. Okay, good. Yes. Michael. M r. R. D t. And I'm looking at the Amazon page, so it's there. We had all kinds of really good questions about the guy whose last name I can't pronounce. I'm sorry, guy. It says, What's your take on the issue? A spiritual father who is a mentor best described as a spiritual father.

Chuck Coker A spiritual father, according to first Sean, to 12 through 14 is a person who understands. Cause and effect, and they have moved from doing the the big, powerful things that we see in the young adult to feeding Satan, etc.. But the parterre, as it's given in Greek, refers to a person who is now beginning to invest. And this doesn't mean a physical genetic father. This is a person who is laying the foundations for the person and becoming a spiritual father can be a mentoring process and or a discipline process, but it is a long term commitment. It is not something that we do for a short period of time.

Bill Mounce Yeah, well, my my fatherhood commitment has lasted for a long time. So that's a good analogy, I guess. Trey wants to know how does personality influence the process of discipleship?

Chuck Coker Oh, that's critical. And you have to you have to remember that the extroverted person moves at a very fast pace and they are often going to miss details and they're going to have to come back and clean up their messes where an introverted person is much more concrete or detail oriented. They're going to be slower, they're going to take a little bit more time to get things done, but they don't want to move on until they have a complete understanding. And then you have the thinker who's analyzing and breaking everything down into details. And they can tend to take a lot of time and they have a lot of why do you want to do it that way and why should we? But the feeler is much more emotionally based. And so when they get into a situation where the anxiety level is up, they're going to act more quickly and possibly make the wrong decision. Personality is critical. And if you go to the link for our free assessments, you can get that done. It won't take 30 minutes, but you can have that done and know without a doubt who you're working with if you're going to mentor them.

Bill Mounce Yeah, So that that applies both to the mentor and the mentee, doesn't it? I mean.

Chuck Coker Exactly that.

Bill Mounce Personality. So you talk about these free assessments. Where are those links?

Chuck Coker Those links are on my website like Thrive, dot com LIFO or RV dot com. And there's a link at the top that says assessments. And when you hit that there'll be a dropdown menu that says free assessments and you'll see the behaviors and values, the spiritual gifts and the fruit of the spirit assessments there for no cost.

Bill Mounce All right. Thank you. Yeah, You're talking about your personality. I'm reminded of the one or two one of the two classes that we already have up on biblical training, the one that's called personality and mindsets. And that's really what you're talking about, isn't it? Yes. It's for you all to know this was of this. Well, I especially do class on conflict because I'm no good at it. But I really enjoyed this one because I realized when I was pastoring, I didn't really know myself and I definitely did not know my staff. And that lack of knowledge of both our personalities, which is what we're born with and our mindset. What what has developed was crucial for communication and success in ministry. So that'd be another place that you could go to do a follow up on that. So thanks. We have several questions have come in. Marcelo Ramos asks you, several that have asked the same thing, but does a mentor choose the mentee or the other way around?

Chuck Coker Say that again, Please, Bill.

Bill Mounce Who chooses whom? Does a mentor choose the mentee or does the mentee choose the mentor?

Chuck Coker Well, it can actually go both ways, Bill. A person who has a desire for a mentor should begin to try to identify who has the natural expertise or the experience in the area that they want to grow and develop. If it's if it's Bible. Find a pastor on the staff that may not be the senior pastor that you're going to get to first off. On the other hand, if you are in a place or a position to where your role gives you freedom and you're well seeded in the church and you don't have a lot of demands and you want to reach that church father stage and be able to help someone understand cause and effect, then you can actually begin to try to identify, go to one of the pastors or the staff members and identify who do you see as up and coming in their faith, who's excited about their faith and who has the potential for growth and leadership? So I've seen it work both ways.

Bill Mounce Bill Yeah. So one of the other questions that was related is let's say you're willing to be a mentor. How do you let people know? I'm assuming you to the staff, you let them know in the church or anywhere. What are your thoughts on that?

Chuck Coker Well, in any church, it's going to look a little bit differently. We actually have a bulletin board that has a section for jobs, has a section for service, and has a section for coaching and mentoring. And so we can post it there in our particular church if the elders are notified. I am pretty sure that the elders of the deacons in a church are going to know someone who wants that kind of growth and development. And if it's a smaller church, go talk to the pastor. Tell them that you want to invest in someone. Who does he see that has that potential?

Bill Mounce Okay, good. Another question from Marcelo in Brazil. How long should a mentor walk with his mentee?

Chuck Coker Well, I think the minimum is six months and depending on what they're actually trying to accomplish, it can be several years. There should be intermediate goals, as I showed you on your smart plan. You want to get them through that first goal and quickly so that they can feel and build their confidence. After that, it can be a longer term goal, such as I want to start seminary, to be not to be a preacher, but to be a better believer.

Bill Mounce All right. And by the way, in reference to this, the class you did on Smart, it is all recorded. We're just waiting for funding to be able to get it up. But the class is coming and hopefully within the next six months we'll have it up. So just let you all know that. Another question brought again, I'm sorry, these are fascinating names. Abedi, Abedi Alexander. This is how do you encourage mentoring in a post-modern culture that rejects the idea of learning from elders or other people's experience or an expert in something? I mean, our culture is not bent this way right now, but it's true. Say, towards encouraging.

Chuck Coker Well, what.

Bill Mounce Culture?

Chuck Coker Here. Here's the thing that I would I would suggest in that particular case, where there is a natural resistance to someone older, then what I would say is I have an opportunity, some to share some expertise in this particular area. Some of the areas may not be modern, but I would like to learn from my mentee how some of those things have transitioned from where they were when I developed that experience. So I'd really like to have a coach mentoring relationship where I give the experience and they update me on what's more modern.

Bill Mounce And what you're doing at that point is your earning trust.

Chuck Coker Exactly.

Bill Mounce Yeah. All right, good. What is the difference or similarity between mentoring and so on?

Chuck Coker Between mentoring and biblical counseling. My goodness. A biblical counselor is an individual who understands the way the psyche works, both from a mental perspective and a spiritual perspective, because the pure mental perspectives have certain constructs that they work around, like disassociated behavior and things like that, where the biblical perspective takes into consideration the spiritual realm. And no matter whether we want to admit it or not, the spiritual realm is there. So what we want to do is we want with the biblical counselor to have an understanding of how to counsel from a technical perspective, but how to blend that with the Holy Spirit speaking through them.

Bill Mounce To put it another simpler way, I guess, is anybody can just about anybody can mentor, can't they?

Chuck Coker Can't lutely.

Bill Mounce Not everybody can be a biblical counselor.

Chuck Coker That's correct.

Bill Mounce All right. All right. That was from Leonardo Alonzo. Hey, I got your name. Some on the right. Thanks. Let me see. I just got a few away. About ten more minutes. I got a few more questions I want to convey.

Chuck Coker Okay.

Bill Mounce How many individuals this is for Mark Miller. How many individuals can you effectively mentor at a time?

Chuck Coker Well, that's an interesting question because the American Management Association says the best you can manage at any one particular time is eight people. Now, Jesus did 12, but he was supernatural, you know, So I would really rely on that number because if there's more than that, it's easy to get lost. And my suggestion would keep it would be to keep it no more than five or six.

Bill Mounce All right, Mark.

Chuck Coker You can't you can't really have that level of intimacy and accountability with more than that.

Bill Mounce Right. Mark also asked what happens when the mentee doesn't progress as you agreed upon in the time frame you agreed upon? If the mental doesn't progress or loses interest, how do you cease the mentorship relationship in a loving way?

Chuck Coker Well, I think the important thing to to say to them is this. When we started out, these were our objectives. And so far, I've tried to be faithful with my part. What did I do to discourage you? What did I do that may have influenced you not achieving those objectives in a timely manner? And you have to do this from your heart because this person may have interpreted something that you've said improperly. And this is the time when you can rebuild their trust by becoming reliable. You know, I'm sorry I missed that. I miss things like that. My wife tells me that from time to time. But what I would like to do is let's go back. Let's start again and take a look at that. How can I be of more help to you in this situation when you take it on yourself, when you the mentee can't argue with that. But if they in most cases are bound to the spirit, they're going to admit it's not your fault.

Bill Mounce No. All right. Here's a fascinating question from Jerry Aubrey. And it has to do about not so much a mentor, but a mentorship program in a church. And curious, how do you start a mentorship? I'm going to put in program. I have noticed that many churches in my local area don't offer any. And I think they are vital for spiritual understanding and growth. And many churches aren't interested in starting any. So how would you go about as a person who feels called this to to get a mentoring program and church going, finding people to be mentors, that kind of stuff?

Chuck Coker That's a good question because churches need them. And what we find in most churches today are discipleship groups or Bible study groups that end up being fellowship groups rather than digging deep into the Scripture. So approaching the pastor or the executive pastor or whoever is in charge of this particular area is, you know, Pastor, I just watched a webinar on mentoring and it really made me think about the fact that I know there are people in our church that want help. I know there are people that would take the help if it was offered to them. Now, can you and I work together to make that happen now?

Bill Mounce Okay, I'm really sorry. We're just about a time and we did this previous webinar, so I'm assuming we're doing it again and that we're going to go through all the questions that you all submitted in the Q&A and the ones that we weren't able to answer. We'll we'll get them posted with Dr. Corker's answers to. So that's coming up. So all of you will be getting a follow up email with a lot more of this kind of information. But there'll be links to how do I posed the question and things like that. Obviously, this is just an overview of what the course is going to be. Chuck, How many lessons are in this course altogether?

Chuck Coker Well, there's seven particular sections and there were will probably be anywhere from 8 to 10 lessons, 3 to 8 minute lessons in each section.

Bill Mounce Okay. So there'll be a lot more on this on the class. And so, again, this is not we've not been able to do the fundraising for this class yet. And if you would like to help us with that, that would be fantastic. And there'll be a link in the chat where you can where you can donate to this. I also wanted to point out that the other class that we already have up on biblical training for Dr. Corker is the class on conflict. And I had a good friend who was a pastor when I was a teacher going Commonwealth Seminary in Boston and in his church was the world's most renowned pastor, a teacher of pastors. How do you handle Robinson? How do you how do you prepare sermons? And so I asked him once, he said, So, Hammond, what do you spend your time on? And I expected because had was in there that he would say, well, 70% on sermon prep and he said about 7% on conflict management, 70% on conflict management went, oh, my goodness. You said that before. Had Robinson with no strap on a sermon, had one judge anyone. But the course on conflict is really good and really helpful and encourage you to go look at it. We got the address for the assessment and. I'm just checking my notes to make sure I covered everything. So I wanted to ask the question, Well, what was that book again? It's called Leading with Questions. And there's basically a first and a second edition, and you want to get the second edition. So thank you, Doctor Coker, Thank you for allowing us to spend this hour with you. Thank you for your incredible generosity of sharing your life's work with biblical training. And we do look forward to many other times where we can. To collaborate and get your get your message out. I've just been noticing that they've been putting up links in the chat for those classes, so that's good. So thank you again very much. Thank you. For all of you who have joined, the numbers have been consistently above 200, so that's really cool. And the blessings, especially on you who live in somewhat more isolated places where you might not have access to this kind of stuff. I hope that this has been helpful and we will be doing more of these ago. So thank you very much.