Mentoring in the Marketplace - Lesson 2

Karen Howells and Diane Paddison
Mentoring in the Marketplace
CM400-02
Mentoring Relationships
Lesson Transcript

Karen Howells: "We're delighted that she joined us today to take a look at it through conversation at the Ministry of Mentoring. And this particular interview with our guests, Joy and Diane will introduce in just a moment to be focused more on relationships and how mentoring for believers all ages, but especially 18 to 35, can really grow from mentorship. So I'm so excited today to have Joy Eggerichs here, and she has a very vital ministry right now in our world specific issue, 18 to 35 year olds. And I'm to let her introduce that a little bit more, some exciting projects going on in her life. And she is related to the Eggerichs who has written love and respect, who's her dad and her mom's involved. So some intergenerational mentoring going on there, right? Yeah. And then my friend and colleague, Diane Paddison, who is a very accomplished woman, a wife and a mother for children, right? Yes, one husband and four children. That's plenty. And she is a business leader and has founded an exciting ministry called 4Word. And her book is called Work, Love, Pray. Get a copy. It's very helpful, targeted, especially to young women in the workplace. So, Joy, tell us a little bit more about how you are engaged in ministering in relationship."

Joy Eggerichs: "Thank you. Yeah, I'm glad you clarified that. I'm my father's daughter and not wife because sometimes people think that grosses me out. So. But yes, my parents started a marriage ministry called Love and Respect, and I was directing their marriage conferences for a couple of years. And during that time, at every single conference, I would hear people say, Man, I wish we would have known this 20 years ago. If only I knew then what I know now. And so then I almost got married and then didn't. And in that time of just kind of brokenness and going, What in the world is happening? I really had a heart to serve my generation because I felt like I wasn't the only one that felt like they couldn't figure this out. And I started thinking and I was like, you know, my generation doesn't know it, but in 20 years, they probably will come to my parents conference and say, Why didn't anybody teach us this 20 years ago? If only I knew then what I know now. And so one of the things I had noticed at my parents conferences is at the very end, my father calls everyone forward independently of their spouse. So he'll have husbands on one side, wives on the other, and say, well, you ultimately commit to do your marriage the way God asked you to do it regardless of what your spouse does. And so these people are making commitments independently of their spouse. And I would sometimes, in my skepticism, be like, is this just a conference high? Or, you know, they really mean it. And what could keep them on this track and with this commitment? And I thought no better accountability would be if they had to go to someone like me who wasn't married or who with a younger couple or a dating couple and say, hey, I don't have this all figured out. But here's what I just learned and I kind of want to walk with you and just I want you to hold me accountable by me telling you what I'm trying to figure out. So that was kind of when the wheels started spinning. And then after my breakup was when I was like, I got to do something about it. So I started my own division called Love and Respect. Now, based on that phrase, if only I knew then what I know now. And it's geared towards men and women, 18 to 35, single dating or married. So yes."

Karen Howells: "Such a huge need right now. That always comes up when I'm in conversation with younger people because the game has changed so much, hasn't it, Diane? Oh yeah. From when we were dating, though, principles remain the same. Yes. Well, welcome today."

Joy Eggerichs: "Thank you for having me."

Karen Howells: "Really great to have you. So, Diane, just give us a little snippet of your journey. And in mentoring, how do you use that in your work, in your ministry?"
Diane Paddison: "Well, I've just been really blessed with my background that I had a platform and still do in the corporate world. And through working with a couple of companies where I was CEO of Fortune 500 companies and then in my personal life really went through a period of being single, then married with two children, and then a time of brokenness of two years going through a divorce. And then I was a single mom with two kids, and now I am a wife with four children. My husband Chris, and I have a blended family, Brady Bunch. So, you know, having those experiences and having that platform, it really has given me a chance to really see that God had a plan. And Jeremiah 29:11 is sort of one of my theme verses that when I look at today, there's a lot of women in there trying to navigate because 72% of women are in the workforce, right? And 80% the time when they're talking with me, they want to talk about relationships. Right? And so it's so important. And that's why I'm so happy that Joy is here with us today, because Joy is such a great resource around relationships and really thinking about that."

Karen Howells: "Yes, and you've made mentoring a centerpiece in a way of your new organization, 4Word, which started just to two years ago, is here."

Diane Paddison: "It's like, oh, September of 2011."

Karen Howells: "And how many cities are you in now? I know it keeps mushrooming."

Diane Paddison: "This fall. We will be in 11 cities."

Karen Howells: "It's fantastic. And I know Portland was one of the."

Diane Paddison: "It was the founder."

Karen Howells: "The founder, Yes. Creative Portland. I tell you a godsend work here. It's so great. So and the mentoring program you have you actually have a way you put people together now right."

Diane Paddison: "You know we saw that these women were doing a great thing, which was sort of peer to peer mentoring. And even in some of our groups we have multi-generational. So that was just happening, very informal. But we felt like because we had 25,000 that were coming to our site, but we only have 400 that are in local groups at this point in time. There were a lot that were not getting mentoring and so we set up a virtual mentoring program where we match women with younger women in a six week mentoring program."

Karen Howells: "I'm very excited because I just signed up. Yes, that's right. 4Word to it. Well, Joy, you have been an amazing role model. And I had heard about you, met you a few years ago. And I noticed on your site you're very honest and very frank about the journey as a young believer trying to make a difference. What do you think makes mentoring effective when it comes to helping one another in the realm of relationships?"

Joy Eggerichs: "I think one of the kind of missions that I'm on is actually I think a lot of the foundation to kind of the format that I try to tell people in the church kind of started here at Western. I took some coaching classes and I love that approach because I feel like sometimes with mentoring or discipleship, older people hear what younger people are doing and freak out, you know, and are like to do that or, or they've made mistakes. And so they're like, Don't do what I did, you know."

Karen Howells: "Trying to be helpful."

Joy Eggerichs: "Yes, totally trying to be helpful. Or they did it right and then project their story on to everybody else's story. And again, I always tell younger people, yeah, trust their heart. The motivation is good. If someone's wanting to mentor you, that comes from a good place. But the reality is you've got younger people that that are being influenced. And if they do look up to you and you did have a good story, then they want they want their story to be just like yours. And then if it doesn't, they feel like they're somehow out of sight of God's will or they're sinning or. So one of the things that I first tell mentors or anybody that's just older, I just say, ‘Hey, look, you're in a sweet spot right now for mentoring because my generation doesn't want someone that's perfect. We just want someone who's authentic and who is trying.’ So if you're wondering if you should be a mentor or not, I think the biggest indicators just go to your church and just say, Hey, this is what's going on in my life. Do you think I'm fit to be a mentor? And I don't think I think the church is like looking for older people to step out. But a lot of older people just put too much pressure on themselves to be perfect, or they feel so disconnected from the younger generation that they're like, I'm not cool, I'm not hip. And it's like, you know, younger people don't want that. They just want someone to invite them over for dinner to ask them questions, you know, and to just be available. So one of the passages that I saw in Scripture that was like, Oh, wow, this kind of like it fits the coaching fits the coaching thing. And then it's also so biblical in the Bible. But Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. And I looked at that and hopefully I don't think I'm, you know, pulling something out that's not right. But I was like, that matches up with mentoring because it's like, first of all, Philip was listening to the Holy Spirit. And so I know any day that I wake up and I'm like, Lord, use me in somebody's life today, like something happens. And I don't pray that every day. I'm like, ‘Why don't, why don't I?’ But I feel like if mentors are just available to the Holy Spirit, using them like something will happen. I also know that there was some prophet in the Old Testament. I don't know his name, but he, the Lord, was telling him to go speak and he's like, Oh, I can't do it. And words like, you have to. And if you you're going to say something that I don't want you to say, don't worry about it. I'll make your tongue stick to the roof of your mouth. And I always kind of pray that sometimes before I speak, which would be really awkward, but."

Diane Paddison: "I'll remember that."

Joy Eggerichs: "But I think there's something about like when Scripture says you were not given a spirit of fear, but of power, love, control, like power, love and self-control. I mean, that's like you can speak boldly. The person that you're mentoring will know that you're loved if you're praying for love for them. Right? And self-control will hopefully be that tongue to the roof of the mouth kind of thing, where you just hopefully don't say what you're not supposed to and that there's grace if you do say something stupid. And so it's all if that fear is holding you back from mentoring, that's where I'm just going. Older people come on like, we need it, we want it. And so I just love that passage because yeah, so it's listening, listening the Holy Spirit and he hears the Ethiopian unit reading. And then the first thing when he goes and talks to them, he doesn't say, Oh, let me tell you what that passage means, because I'm Philip. He's he asks a question, and that's the coaching approach, assuming that the person has the answer within them. And I think that's one of the things that I tell mentors is just like, listen, ask questions. Because if you tell that person what to do, there's a you know, I mean, that's like there's a there's a less chance that they will actually follow through if they're told what to do or it'll come from the wrong place, maybe they'll do it. But it's formulaic. It's not from the heart out of belief that this is actually what God wants him to do."

Karen Howells: "And I think sometimes I just say amen to everything you've just said. We're almost worse about it in the church. We have such a model of telling. Mm hmm. And I have seen people question who are brilliant people and wonderful Christ followers. That model of question asking, just like you talked about with Philip. Yeah, it's really good. And I want to riff on this a little bit about older people, seasoned people, people in our generation being afraid. We have to be perfect. That's really interesting, isn't it? Does that happen for you, Diane? Was it intimidating at first? I know it was for me when I really started mentoring, especially in the relationship realm outside of my role as a professional coach and consultant. Yeah. Did you ever feel like, Oh, I don't have all the answers I should."

Diane Paddison: "Maybe with me, it's I knew I did. Yeah. So I never really said to myself that I shouldn't do this. I mean, I always knew I didn't have all the answers. And thankfully, we're just covered with God's grace. So true. So but I do have a lot of women. I actually had a woman who was a mentor in our recent mentoring program. She's in her 70. She had an amazing career. She raised the son. I mean, she's a man or a woman of God. And she said, I just don't know if I can do this. And I said, B.J., you would be a gift. Yeah, you would be such a gift. And of course, what happened was she got so much out of herself by pouring in to another person. Yes. It was such a gift to her also."

Karen Howells: "Totally. I remember standing in my kitchen with the group that I led at church where I attend church, and I said to one young woman, I'm just not sure what you want. And she said, ‘We want you to be with us. Yeah, we want you to be with us.’ It's not rocket science. I didn't have to be a biblical scholar or even an expert on relationships. Which is your area?"

Joy Eggerichs: "Well, but that on that, I generally like to correct people and say I'm not okay. I mean, my father is and I wanted to I mean, it is a natural interest. So I have studied, but I don't have my Ph.D. like he does. And I can't remember stats for the life of me. But even if I could remember stats, like if you start to read a lot of my posts, you'll notice, Well, first of all, I changed my site to be where people write it and ask me questions because I knew that I didn't know the answers. But if I was asked questions that would force me to look for them. And so I know I learned through questions, and so that's what I wanted. But then for my answers, I'm sure some people are like, okay, we've heard this before, but I as much as I can give a guideline or point people to some of the major themes that my father has written about my mom and dad speak about. But I often come back to each situation specific and I'm only hearing from one of you because it's generally a relationship. I only hear it from one of you, so I don't know the whole picture. Right? So it would be unwise of me to give you a formulaic answer. Here's a few things I can tell you, but what I will tell you that you need to do, and if for some reason you're hesitant to doing that raises a red flag for me is to go seek older, wiser counsel. And so that's why it is so imperative that these older people come and say, I'm willing, I'm available. I'm here to just be with that person again, not because they're an expert, but because they will by spending time with someone, they will get to know them and hopefully then have enough wisdom and intuition to know for this specific situation. Because if two people came to me with the same scenario, I would probably not give them the same right advice. I have to get to know both of them and their stories. And so that's why it's like I love the Q&A type thing on my website, but I really love doing live Q&A because then I can dig a little bit more it out. But then mentoring just goes beyond that even more because it's more than just an hour with somebody. It's yeah, you know."

Karen Howells: "So how have you seen mentoring really impact people growing in relational intelligence, if you will, or relational effectiveness?"

Joy Eggerichs: "That's a great question. I, I feel like when someone is being mentored, it gives them the confidence to make a decision. I think I see a lot of people just become so paralyzed in the unknown. Yeah, because relationships have shifted so much and we've got so much technology involved and you're just kind of like, I don't know, I don't know what to do. But if some if an older person can be like, No, you actually need to call that girl or you actually need to, you know, just sit and wait for a little while or you actually instead of, you know, emailing, why don't you guys get together face to face, you know."

Karen Howells: "What a concept."

Joy Eggerichs: "Crazy men out there. Women do it too. Somebody said something to me about, like, guys shouldn't text or whatever. And I was like, ‘Actually, I feel a lot safer texting.’ I mean, I did it and I need to get outside of that. And I need to have those older people being like, you know, in this situation, I have gotten different advice for me in different situations depending on how the what move the guy has made, etc. So that's why I think it's just one of the things like I have this project that I mentioned to you called the Elimination Project. Yes."
Karen Howells: "Tell us more about that."

Joy Eggerichs: "Well, that that kind of is the culmination of my work. And it is so much around bringing intergenerational conversations together and inter seasonal. I don't even know if that's a word. I just think I made it up. But. Single dating Engage married people. Young, old, male. Female. It's this six-week study that I created, and I basically interviewed my father in front of a live audience and just pushed back on a lot of the stuff in his book that I was like, you know, And it was great."

Karen Howells: "How did you do with that?"

Joy Eggerichs: "Awesome! I knew he had the answers. It's just you can't write. He would write a thousand-page book if he gave all these caveats. But I was like, here’s that little hang ups I know my generation is going to have. So, let's dive into those and then let's together talk about your main concepts, because it might be a little bit more palatable for my generation to listen when it's the two of us together. And so, my hope is that then this study will just kind of be a trigger to these inter-generational, inter-seasonal conversations. So, I tell people I'm like, Yes, you can do this on your own. Yes, you can do this. If you're just a couple, you can do this, you know, in a small group of all like peers. But my heart is for single dating, married, older, younger men, women to be doing this together, because that's what I think the churches."

Karen Howells: "Yeah, that is so great. So instead of reinforcing this separateness and isolation. That we see now in church and in the world, it's that connecting. I'm even thinking of an example in my own life where we met a young couple dating, they'd actually moved here from Germany. We met them the first Sunday, then we walked through their season of dating, and it was complicated. They're from She's American and he's. He's German, and they were both working in Germany. Then they ended up getting married. We celebrated that with them and now they have a baby and a second one on the way. So, and then it wasn't just us walking with them. They walked with us as we had struggles through my cancer journey to our children, going to college and then graduating through our son's same health problems he's had. So, it's been both of us mentoring one another through various seasons. So, I think you make an excellent point there."

Joy Eggerichs: "Well, and just thinking about them. So like if they had isolated themselves and didn't get that insight from you guys, who knows if their dating relationship was rocky? Who knows if they would have gotten married? But then even being newly married and having to see a couple, you know, how many years and you and your husband were going through a cancer battle like that causes them to pause and go, we’re not guaranteed tomorrow. So how are we treating each other today? Just that observation, whether it's conscious or subconscious. Yeah. And that's why that's why I called the elimination project what I did. Because my heart is for us to all have these light bulb moments and to do relationships in the light. So you and your husband, we're not closed off about it."

Karen Howells: "We were very transparent because they asked us and we had relationship with them that gave us that safety and the trust and they wanted to know the real deal. How are you doing this? Yeah. And, you know, they brought meals and some of the best ministry we had. Well, we're in those difficult times. Yeah. Which I know that you relate to through your journey as well. How what do you think pastors need to know? Because we'll have a wide range of people watching this, which is great. What would you say to pastors about mentoring and relationships? How could they help make this integration happen in the church?"

Diane Paddison: "Well, I'll just start with a little bit of what I see from women that I hear from. Great. That might be helpful. I think that a lot of pastors have not been aware of the big change that's happened amongst women, that now we have 72% of women in the workforce. They have children under 18. You know, over 50% of advanced degrees are going to women today. 25 years ago, it was 6%. So there's a huge change as far as this demographic of, you know, and women are 40% of the time the primary breadwinner. Yeah. So, you've got this financial role, you've got this education and you've got the fact that they're in the workforce. So, this traditional model, I'll just use the word traditional that a lot of pastors think are out there among 80% of their congregation. It's totally the other way around. Yeah, and a lot of women feel that they're not understood. Guest So I think my advice would be for pastors to really start talking with the women in their church, start understanding where they're coming from. Start understanding what is their day, what are their days Monday through Friday like? And then probably Saturday because they've got to get all the tourists then with their spouse and their spouse is a key part of making that all happen. So I think that audience has changed a lot in the last 30 years. And to be able to mentor around relationships like Joy was saying, you have to understand their story, right. And their story is not the story that 80% of your congregation was 30 years ago. Because if you're that woman. Your partner's life has changed, too, because they're much more involved with childcare or much more involved with, you know, just the chores around the house. And that has another impact on family dynamics."

Karen Howells: "Yeah, and these are facts and realities. Yeah. And there are younger women that are opting to be home full time, but not every woman can do that or is called to that. Yeah, and I don't think we need more guilt. I will say that to Exactly. It's been so refreshing to me with the pastors that have walked alongside me, who've affirmed my calling and my gifts. Yeah. And have actually invited me to use those in the church and have been available to talk to me about work issues and often done some periodic mentoring instead of making me feel like I was less than. So very important. Thank you for injecting those important facts. It's very different than when you and I started working where we were probably often the only woman in the room. Right. So. And much more complicated now, isn't it?"

Joy Eggerichs: "Yeah. No, I mean, I totally agree with Diane, and I do. I feel like. There are so many pastors that are probably just exhausted, you know, And and so they think I don't I don't understand this next generation, so I'm just not going to do anything about it. And I would just say, like you will breathe life into your church if you literally like when you're in a leadership role, you you don't understand how much just a even a passing comment can like build so much energy into someone. And so, if you're praying, like, Lord, raise up leaders in my church, like all you probably have to do is like be looking for those people and you have to be genuine. But like if you see someone that you think could be a mentor, just saying, you know, I've been thinking about you and I think that you would be a great mentor, like just having a person in leadership say that can start getting the wheels turning, build the confidence when they don't like your friend. BJ Like just you. Saying that to her gave her the confidence to do it and then look what happened for her. And so if you want to build energy into your like if you're exhausted as a pastor, like just start telling some older people in your church that you see that they can do that and then let them run with that. And then that is the kind of thing where that connectedness and the older people who may not feel like they understand this next generation will just get to walk with it and realize these aren't these aren't necessarily, you know, maybe women who are fighting for, you know, to make their voice heard in the church or anything. They just they don't know what to do because it is so new. Right, but to be validated and to be walked with, I just think is going to will revive the church."

Karen Howells: "Yeah. And I think to call as you were saying earlier, people who've lived life a little longer than you forward to be available. You know it doesn't mean it has to be an hour a week. Yeah, that's the other thing I hear from my generation as well. I don't have time off and we're dealing with our our parents’ care. Yeah. And then we have our own children. But I found it. It's it doesn't have to take hours and hours. Just that availability."

Joy Eggerichs: "Yeah, it can be a phone call."

Karen Howells: "Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Well, you mentioned scripture earlier, and I want to. I want to hark back on that. Where do you see Scripture directing us in both of your ministries and to mentoring and the value of mentoring? It's a big question. The open-ended question."

Diane Paddison: "I think in Titus two we are told about the wisdom of an older woman and what she can do to pour into others. And we're also told in some 27 about, you know, iron sharpens iron. So, you know, we're really told that we need to look for others who can help us grow in our faith and help us go through life and I think there's many verses that you see the different that annunciated many times."

Karen Howells: "Absolutely. Even even the metaphor in in Corinthians about the body of Christ, we're different parts at different seasons for different things."

Joy Eggerichs: "Well, one passage that comes to my mind that was a big kind of illumination moment for me was I always heard the phrase like, guard your heart, guard your heart, just guard your heart, don't you know? And I saw that translating to a lot of people, putting walls up like I'm guarding my heart. Therefore, I'm not going to talk to this person, which I think sometimes we can twist scripture to like, self-preservation. But as I looked at that, I was like, oh, that's actually not what it's saying. It's a father talking to his son, saying, ‘Get wisdom, get wisdom, get wisdom, get wisdom, get wisdom, get wisdom and then guard your heart.’ And basically, saying you put the right things into your heart. You guard those things and you will let out an aroma that's attractive to the right person. And so, guarding your heart actually means becoming a wise person. And I just think that's what have like the way I've gained wisdom like, you know, is the reading scripture but like is through having older godly people who know scripture better than I do pouring into my life. That's the way Scripture comes alive for me. So that was just one thing that in terms of mentoring, I just feel like around relationships, I think we've kind of screwed up that little phrase guiding your heart. But I think it's always that's what I point everybody back to is Scripture says if you pray for wisdom and believe that God will give it to you, He will. And so I just I would love to see the church and Christians known and be like, noticed by people outside of the church because they're just wise. They're wise, and you don't always have to. I have numerous non-Christian friends that I talk to about their relationships, and you don't have to put a Bible verse in there. But like the wise advice that I give them based on having a relationship with them and knowing them makes them intrigued. You know, I just had a friend the other yesterday text me who's not a believer in a very unique relationship, and she just was like, I need you to pray for me."

Karen Howells: "So isn't that a sweet moment? That's where you see ministry happen. Yeah, right where we are. Life on life. Yeah. Yeah. And then there comes a point to where I know this is happening for both of you. People say, ‘So what's the difference?’ ‘How do you do this?’ ‘How?’ ‘Where does this wisdom come from?’ And there's just an opening. Yeah, because it doesn't happen as much as I want sometimes. But it does happen as you build that relationship. Truth is truth. Yeah, absolutely."

Joy Eggerichs: "When you were saying something about oh, when she asked about relationships and you saying, I don't know which you do, but I think another huge thing is like and so in my feeling of inadequacy because my dad's the expert, you know, I realized that, like, my inadequacy, inadequacy is like it creates humility, a forced humility, because I know that I don't know at all. And I think that is a huge thing. I think that's a huge thing that has kept people from wanting to come to Christianity is a lack of humility that they see. That doesn't mean we have to dumb ourselves down. No. But I think that I think that is a huge, hopefully encouragement for possible mentors. I'm just saying, like in your inadequacy, but you can still give advice, still give it insight, but you come with a humble spirit. And that is so attractive. Yes, so attractive."

Karen Howells: "And in that constant dependance on the Holy Spirit. Yeah, I know. And I try to do it on my own. It's doesn't work. But when I ask God to lead me, things come out of my mouth that I don't know where they came from. Yeah. And or I'll even they'll say, What did you say? I'm like, I don't even know. I'm glad it landed. But it was from the Lord. So talk a little bit about how forward and being engaged with this ministry where mentoring is kind of a part of your ethos. How has that had impact for you and for you both at your seasons of life? Diane, do you want to. Sure. Take that first or I'll start."

Diane Paddison: "I am. You know, it's wonderful when you've been given gifts and given a platform because all of a sudden then opportunities happen that you don't even expect. Right. And, you know, I'll just share real quick one. I had the opportunity to meet one of our Olympic athletes, Lopez Lamon, and he is the lost boy of Sudan. And he ran for us in London and in and in China, in Beijing. And, you know, when you have a platform and you're able to actually go out and use the gifts you've given to help mentor someone else now. And it's just amazing what God will do through that. I feel like Ephesians 3:20 is definitely my verse because I would have never told you that last week. Lopez is Politico's team would have raised a half a million dollars through for South Sudan team World Vision, and it was just four from a very little connection that God gave me for with one of my classmates from Harvard Business School that is now the head of World Vision internationally. Two years ago, this started and, you know, yeah. Now there's half a million dollars. They're going to build water wells in South Sudan. So I think that, you know. We all are given gifts and we can use those to help others all the time. And so if we just sort of when their door is open, just having the courage to just walk through it and then just let God take it from there."

Diane Paddison: "Know and die. And one of your very obvious gifts is being a connector. And I think God's I see how, as I've known you now for a couple of years, how he's called you to use your platform to connect people so that the kingdom can be built. Very exciting. And everybody's path is different. Right? Which goes back to your caution about being formulaic. I love that. That's how God works very uniquely."

Diane Paddison: "And I'll just add a real quick one. You know, you look back at also your brokenness in your life is looking through going through a divorce and how that. Can be used. Mm hmm. So, you know, it's not only the gifts you're given, but the trials that you went through so that the Lord prepared you for something else."

Diane Paddison: "It's clearly not about our perfection. Right? Thankfully. Right. Yeah."

Joy Eggerichs: "Yeah, I would say that. Well, first, Harold, Diane and I met with such a unique thing. I actually was just mentioning to someone I can't keep any plants alive. And ironically, we met the one time I've been to the Portland nursery, and the one time I wore this hot pink sweatshirt, which I don't normally warehouse sweatshirts, but had been given to me from a school in Texas that I spoke at. And so I was wearing it that day. And then her husband was in line behind me and he was like, Oh, are you from Texas? And I was like, No, I just got the sweatshirt. Some work I did at the school. And then and then he asked me what I did. And then he's like, Oh, my wife would want to meet you. And so then Diane got on the line and we started talking. And it's like, I mean, that's just so crazy that we that we met that way."

Diane Paddison: "It's a divine appointment."

Joy Eggerichs: "Clearly. It's crazy. I mean, God. Well."

Diane Paddison: "Yeah. I'll just add one little thing, which was really interesting, is I serve on the advisory board for the business school. I don't today for the school. So, when I heard she spoke at Senior Summit, I knew it was a big deal. And then then I had just heard her dad speak two weeks before at Solid Rock. So, it sort of all came together. Yeah. Sorry."

Joy Eggerichs: "No, no, it was just a very cool story. And so since then, it's just I've been totally a fan of what Diane is trying to do in terms of serving working women, but also just the mentoring piece I think we just totally connect on. So I'm really grateful for it as a working woman and to be able to have Diane available. And she does make herself very available and she is humble and yes, and we do usually talk about relationships. Yeah."

Diane Paddison: "You know, that is so true. I work a lot with, you know, male and female men and women and your ministries, men and women, not just women. Yeah, but very senior women who own companies and very experienced will get together. And when the doors closed, you're over meal. It's about husbands, kids, mothers, dads. It's all about relationships. Yeah. So we struggle there. Yeah, really struggle there."

Joy Eggerichs: "Yeah. I mean, it's have felt about me forever. I mean, we're called to work, but I mean relationships is. I mean, we were designed that way. I feel like for more than anything, that is like a reflection of how we were designed by God for something."

Diane Paddison: "More for purpose."

Joy Eggerichs: "Yeah. So distribution. Yeah. Whether it's a romantic or friendship, like we need to be in relationship. Yeah. So there's very few people who can live isolated alone in the woods, but. Yeah. Yeah."

Diane Paddison: "Well, I so appreciate you making yourself available to have this conversation today. And we will make available the websites so that you can connect with joy and materials will have those in the notes and also so you can reach them if you have questions or want to engage them as speakers because they're both great. I know. So thank you, Joy and Diane, thanks again."

Joy Eggerichs: "Thank. Thank you."

Diane Paddison: "And really fun. Thanks."