Romans - Lesson 37

Romans 8:28-39 

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

A. God Works for the Good: 

We are so familiar with verse 28 that sometimes I tend to preach this text in a negative way. Obviously, you want to make the point about the wonderful promise it is. But to some extent I feel I need to tell people what the text does not mean because it is so widely misinterpreted. God is pledging to work for the good of those who love Him. The key point in this verse is to understand ‘good’. 

We tend to misinterpret that in very personal and selfish and even materialistically ways. I have heard people say to someone who has lost a job; don’t worry, God has a better job for you, Romans 8:28. To which I want to say, you may never have as good a job as you have just lost; but the loss of your job is being used by God to bring you closer to Christ, to confirm your salvation, to accomplish the good that God has for you. That “good” of course again needing to be defined in biblical, spiritual, godly terms, not in narrow, selfish, and even materialistic terms that we tend to view it in. 

It is a wonderful all-embracing promise. In everything, God is working in this way. But the key is to help people understand what the ‘good’ is here. The ‘good’ is conformity to Christ; the ‘good’ is deepening our faith, and sometimes God does that by allowing bad things to happen to us. This verse doesn’t promise that bad things will not happen, it doesn’t promise that bad things that happen to us will necessarily be reversed. It is promising that we can be confident about God at work in all of the circumstances of our lives always seeking our good, defined biblically.

Student:   
This scripture gets taken out of context, especially when there is a natural tragedy.  Like when Hurricane Katrina went through, this preacher on television was saying, God allowed this to happen to bring about some better good. He allowed them to move to Houston where they can have better homes, better lives, and better jobs. 

Dr. Moo:  
I agree. That is a classic instance.  If he had just stopped and said, God allowed Katrina in order to bring about good, and here’s what that good might be, then yes.  It’s when you get specific that’s where the problem comes. 

Student:  
What I always object to in the use of this verse, is the “called according to His purpose” part.  I don’t think that’s a good translation I think it’s to those who remain in accordance with His purpose. Because “the called according to His purpose” is not a good description of those who love Him. Anyone can accept this as a promise. But if it’s those who remain in accordance with His purpose, that is to be conformed to the image of Christ, those are the ones who can count on this sort of promise. Not just Joe-blow, nominal Christian.  I’ve always thought that was a mistaken interpretation. It’s pretty much for those who are willing to suffer for Him because this whole section is on that, and who are much more on board with the will of God than just anybody.

B. In All Things: 

I think I’m going to disagree, at least the way you put it.  I think Paul is using two different terms here, two different phrases, to describe a Christian. There is a promise that is made to any Christian, defined as those from God’s perspective whom He has, called and from our perspective as those who love God. I agree that the promise is not to whatever a nominal Christian might be; it is only to the people of God, to those who are genuinely the people of God, but I do think it is to all the people of God. I think we’ll disagree a little there.

Student:  
I believe there is an inheritance for everyone, not necessarily just those who suffer for Christ. In my own life I can’t say I’ve experienced that much suffering, but I will still have an inheritance. I think in the same vein, the ones who can really expect for God to work everything for good are those who constantly remain on board, in accord with. It always has seemed that this is too blanketly appropriated by anybody; people who are not fruitful in their lives, cavalier.

I hear what you are saying. I guess my response would be then, first, practically then you are going to have to raise the question how much are you loving God before this happens? That gets into problems then because none of us love Him perfectly, none of us live perfectly according to His will. So, how close do you have to be before this promise applies to you? 

The second thing that I would say is that Paul is using the language of the word call in the same way he uses it in Romans 1:7. You were called according to Christ Jesus in God. That is a way of saying that God has chosen you to be His people. To me, it does apply then in God’s grace to allthe people of God, even when we are not living up to our side of the bargain. In a sense, none of us ever does. If the promise rests on our performance, then everyone is going to fall short of earning that promise. I know you’re not saying earning, but it does seem applicable to any Christian. 

I would go so far as to say – and this is a big debate according to the fathers in the early church – that “in all things,” even applies to my sin. Even when I sin and create disaster for myself, God is promising even to use that for good. This can be a tremendous encouragement to believers who have fallen. A lot of believers have committed serious sin and immediately it kicks in, and they say that God doesn’t care for them anymore, thinking that they don’t deserve any of his grace. They think that clearly God has abandoned them now. I like to think that this verse makes a promise even to that person that God has not given up on you. He is still working even in the mess that they have created to bring about good, if you let Him do it. 

Student:  
Do you see any significance then in the (unclear)

Dr. Moo:  
Again, it is “to those who are called.” This is just a way of saying ”who are” in English. Who are called This is a verb of identity; who are called according to purpose, according to God’s purpose in the context.

C. Predestination; Calvinist versus Armenian Views: 

The third promise has to do with predestination. This is one of the first of our really controversial soteriological texts of course where I know we are going to disagree. Some of you are certainly going to object to me. It is certainly going to happen. 

I warned you in one of the last sessions that I tend to be on the Calvinist side of soteriology. My interpretation of these verses which is critically bound up with the verb, ‘foreknow’, is more on the Calvinist side. That is the key verb here. 

Of course, you have a sequence that moves from this foreknowing down through this chain of verbs. That is what triggers everything else: foreknown, predestined, called, justified, glorified. It moves right down the sequence of verbs. At right here at the beginning is the key issue: does foreknow mean that God sees or knows something about us ahead of time, or that He chooses us ahead of time? The word is used both ways in scripture. Sometimes it is usedin the sense of knowing something ahead of time.

A typical more Armenian approach to this sequence would be that God knows ahead of time those who are going to respond in faith to the offer of the Gospel. On the basis of His knowing ahead of time who is responding in faith, He then predestines, calls, justifies, and glorifies. So, at the beginning of the process is human faith. That is what triggers the sequence. 

The general Armenian view being that in prevenient grace, God has enabled all human beings to respond in faith, He has taken the initiative in His prevenient grace to remove or somehow overcome the results of total depravity in our sinfulness, enabling people to respond in faith. So, it is those then who respond in faith who God foreknows and then the whole sequence follows. 

The other way to take the verb; the way I prefer, is to take it to mean that God is choosing ahead of time. The one who initiates this is not us who believe, but God who chooses. God knows us ahead of time, He enters into relationship, He chooses us ahead of time and on the basis of that choosing of God, He predestines, He calls, He justifies, He glorifies.

D. The Soteriological Debate: 

So, to some extent, the decision rests on trying to understand what this word means in this particular context. If you look at the Greek word and the dictionaries, etc., they will indicate both meanings are found for the word. 

Student:  
Do you think this is a hymn fragment?

Dr. Moo:  
I doubt it, I don’t think there’s enough evidence for that myself.  I tend to me a little skeptical about some of these claims about identifying fragments of hymns. I think sometimes it stands up to scrutiny, but our evidence is so slight and so uncertain I want to be careful about it. 

You have the same problem at the other end of the chain when Paul says those whom He justified, he glorified. Does that mean that everyone that is justified will be glorified? This is the other end of this soteriological debate. At the beginning does God initiate, do we? At the end it, having been justified, are we secure in that justification? Is eternal security, perseverance of the saints as it is sometime called, something that Paul is teaching here? I think it probably is, but others would disagree. 

I I have taught all of my career in places like Trinity Divinity School and Wheaton, where both schools deliberately kept their doctrinal statements open on these kinds of issues. So, I have taught right beside Armenians, even though I tend to be on the Calvinist side of things. I enjoy that atmosphere because this is a matter where I’m not sure we have to introduce those matters into our doctrinal statements. In my view, it is not absolutely clear in scripture which way to go. So, I am very comfortable in that environment.  I would probably be a little bit uncomfortable in any environment that locked that into stone either way.

In verses 8:31-39 is where Paul is responding to the entire argument of Romans 5-8. This is where Paul steps back and deliberately says, okay; let’s just contemplate what I have been saying. Let’s take some time to sort of mediate and allow the truth that I have been giving you to sink in. God is for us; He sent His Son for us. His love is something that fills us and is conquering us, so that whatever we are facing in life, it is no match for the triumphant work and love of God in Christ for us. This is one of those passages where we read it, we think about it, we mediate on it and let it do its work in that way. Again, this is a response to the entire argument I think of Romans 5 through 8.